J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Totoro]

well, the two newer variants of al31f are m1, dating back from 2007, which woould have been available earlier than now... and m2, dating from 2012, which seems more likely to take another year or two to adapt into j10b compatible subvariant.

that newsbit about chinese delegation visiting salyut plant may have been part of such a deal.

i must say the waiting for right engine is good enough reason for the whole development to protract like it has, but i haven't thought of the possibility that engine to wait for would be a new al31 variant. though its perfectly logical - with a new gen plane to try to use a more advanced engine and not settle with just basic al31fn, even if that was available.

 

[Franklin]

If it is true that the engine is the AL-31F M2 that would mean 145 kN thrust vs the 123 kN thrust of the AL-31F for the J-10A. But where does that leave the WS-10A with only 132 kN of thrust ? Did CAC "threaten" Saturn that if you don't give us something better then we will go for the WS-10A ? And may i ask were does these "Big Shrimps" get their information ?

 

[siegecrossbow]

According to the folks on CJDBY, manufacturing for the first batch was done early this year. They spent a lot of time waiting for the AL-31 engines.

 

[Blackstone]

So much for the supposed improvements in Chinese jet engine manufacturing.

 

[Hytenxic]

So much for the supposed improvements in Chinese jet engine manufacturing.

Think its more to do with the rate of production of these engines rather than their actual quality of the engine or j-11s wouldn't be equipped with them. Of course if these were higher thrust variants then the normal AL-31s then we need to wait for the higher thrust ws-10 equivalents.

 

[kwaigonegin]

I don't think it's the AL-31F M2 they were waiting for because it's too soon. I don't think that engine is ready to go into serial production planes yet.
Perhaps it's some sort of derivative of the AL-31F M1 special built for the PLAAF like they did the AL-31FN for the J10A !?

 

[Hyperwarp]

AL-31F M2 is still in testing -

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. Impressive values for the thrust - 142kN/14,500kgf.

AL-31F M1 is in production -

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(132kN/13,500kgf)

Remember these are AL-31F targeted for the flanker upgrades. J-10 requires the FN series with changes to gear-box location and other modification. So I doubt they are AL-31F M2 based. Eventually maybe but at this point, unlikely. If it was the regular

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then we probably would have seen the J-10B in service much sooner. So its probably a AL-31F M1 based (AL-31FN-M1) with at least 132kN max thrust.

 

[Totoro]

AL-31F M2 is still in testing -

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. Impressive values for the thrust - 142kN/14,500kgf.

AL-31F M1 is in production -

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(132kN/13,500kgf)

the link itself actually says: Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, said that the full-scale deliveries of upgraded engines could be started as early as 2013. “The AL-31F M2 engine can be a not so expensive solution for re-engining of Su-27, Su-30 and Su-34 fleet now operated by the Russian military and is likewise deliverable to foreign customers,” noted Director General.

that's perfectly in line with low rate production of m2 engines adjusted for j10 being sent to china at the end of 2013. maybe thats why we havent seen production samples up until now, because as of november 2013 they were still waiting for the engines.

 

[Franklin]

It should also be noted that the AL-31 M1 and M2 both comes with thrust vectoring control. I don't think that during testing the J-10B airframe or the software was designed or tested for TVC. If its not the AL-31 M2 with 145 kN but the AL-31 M1 with only 132 KN then what happened to the WS-10A that also has 132 KN ?

 

[kwaigonegin]

the link itself actually says: Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, said that the full-scale deliveries of upgraded engines could be started as early as 2013. “The AL-31F M2 engine can be a not so expensive solution for re-engining of Su-27, Su-30 and Su-34 fleet now operated by the Russian military and is likewise deliverable to foreign customers,” noted Director General.

that's perfectly in line with low rate production of m2 engines adjusted for j10 being sent to china at the end of 2013. maybe thats why we havent seen production samples up until now, because as of november 2013 they were still waiting for the engines.

so that means PLAAF will start using the M2 even before Russia does? interesting!