J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
- Status
timepass
Brigadier
You are maintaining your stance & emphasizing others to accept what you are saying. In the light of your stance, I have some questions based on your claims about Shenyang liming preferring SAC over CAC or trying to sabotage J10B project by not providing WS10.
What would happen if PLAAF/PLAN or Govt would ask them to furnish the engines to CAC??
Would they still try to jeopardize the deal of J10B??
I am not forcing it. I am reasoning it. So far non of your has come up with reasonable answer on why WS-10 engine on J-10b problem.
They claimed due to limitation of production which i think is not true. If we see new J- series plane get AL-31F engine. Ok, I believe domestic engine shortage might be the problem but that is not the case, Every single Shenyang new plane now out of the factory are equipped with WS-10 engine,no more AL-31F. Even the SAC prototype are equipped with WS-10 engine. And Chengdu get what dirt? So far only 1 J-10B prototype get one precious WS-10. I bet is after lenghty of chengdu begging and get somebody speak up for them and then they managed to get one single domestic engine for them to test..
Are you telling me so many J series of SAC can get WS-10 engine and they cannot even spare a few J series airframe and let J-10b get the engine? One J-11B uses 2 engine and one J-10b uses 1 engine. I think you shall able to do the maths that is not very unreasonable to spare chengdu a few domestic engine.
Then you see SAC and Chengdu despite under the umbrella of AVIC, there is still competition between each other. SAC next generation heavy weight fighter project is always done by SAC. The fact they loses out to Chengdu for 5th gen project is a heavy blow and not to mention a humiliation.
Lastly, J-10b is not more a top priority fighter project. Its mostly a second tier project compare to J-20. if SAC plays some tricks and citing engine delay and limitation, it believable that PLAAF commander may give in to their reasoning and demand. Given SAC powerful status and connection. Its absolutely possible they may influenced the top PLAAF commander to adopt more of Flanker series and even put an end to J-10b. More flanker adopt by PLAAF is important because Chinese flanker is not allow for any re-export sales. This mean any domestic sales is very important. In this way, less Chengdu plane adopted, meaning Chengdu say and spread of influence in PLAAF military will be curbed and subdued.
J-20 is a high priority project endorsed by PLAAF, it will be stupid of SAC try to sabotage this project but J-10b will be different ball.
As for your last question, its very unlikely. SAC is a very powerful organisation just like NORINCO in PLA. They are almost untouchable. You must have a very valid and strong reason to able to force it that way. As I say, J-10b is no more top tier project and can be replaced by J-11b or J-16 series if needed. Flanker can act as deep strike , air superiority and its bigger frame can give it more room for more powerful EW suit, bigger radar and much superior payload and hardpoint.
Last edited:
timepass
Brigadier
Can you support your claim with any links??
Plus again you put lot of your assumptions & didnt answer my questions.
Let me repeated again for you:
What would happen if PLAAF/PLAN or Govt would ask them to furnish the engines to CAC??
Would they still try to jeopardize the deal of J10B??
Please answer YES or NO
Last edited:
Honestly ... the reason is simply that the J-10 has only one engine and the J-11B has two !! For me that is reson enough if the WS-10A has a lower reliability than the AL-31FN (and that need only to be a slightly lower one). As such no need to look ot for a conspiration of to call the guys at CAC unsuccesful, stupid or a disappointment to the PLAAF, ... just a simply reason.
Deino
What are they suppose to say, that WS-10 is a piece of junk? In Zhuhai airshow, they said the thrust level of WS-10 at the moment is 12.5 kg. Do you forget so fast?
check this post out
They had 371 posts thread on CD, because the most well known big shrimp on Chinese military bbs said Taihang is still not as good. They need more work and time.
But clearly, you know more than him, a guy that was part of the Su-30MKK project. Read that thread, look at how well he is respected on this matter.
And it's not just him. None of us here are hoping for WS-10 will fail and J-10 or J-10B project slows down. But if AL-31FN is the more reliable engine right now, then J-10 and J-10B has to go with that.
And if that's not enough, answer these questions.
Why would Shenyang Liming give up valuable orders? CAC is clearly going ahead with J-10A production and using Russian engines. Why would Shenyang Liming not sell CAC when it has production to do so?
If Shenyang does not use FWS-10 for its new aircraft, what engine is it going to use? The Russians are not stupid, they are making sure all of their new AL-31F are going to the old aircraft. Why do you think so many J-11B aircraft were sitting outside SAC with no engines just 2 years ago? How many AL-31F engines do you think SAC has in storage that it can even use for new aircraft or prototypes?
And we have seen at least one J-10B flying with FWS-10A. If it's not flying it for the purpose of hoping that the engine will be ready and for all the flight tests to succeed. What's the reason?
Xi'an AE is Shenyang Liming's biggest competitor. Yet, WS-15 and WS-20 designed by SAERI gets produced by Xi'an AE. That's a case where part of Shenyang aircraft corporation is helping out a competitor rather than giving the project to another of its subsidiary. How does that work? Isn't SAC so powerful that it can override the desires of PLA on all except the biggest matters?
Can you support your claim J-10b is a high priority project? If it is, J-10B will definitely has the WS-10 engine on it rather than SAC J-11B.. So my claim so far is valid that J-10b is a second tier project which can be replaced by J-11b. You see why J-10 drag so long.. The engine supply constraint it. Chengdu will be forced to use AL-31FN but PLAAF will not be happy and just like this project die off and let J-11b replace it.
If PLAAF gives order, no one dare to defy it but PLAAF also work according to priority. Second tier priority project will have secondary attention. Simple! Your question is invalid.
Lintuperhonen
New Member
You seem to forget the difference between the Al-31F and FN which also explains the reason why WS-10s for J-11s are different when compared to those for J-10s.
The original Al-31F has its gearox on top of the engine to fit the Flanker. However, the J-10 resembles Western aircraft in its engine bay design. As such, the gearbox of Al-31FN had to be moved below the engine to enable the turbofan to be fitted in the J-10. Because of this the WS-10s fitted in J-11s are also unsuitable for J-10s.
you are the only one here who is just making wild claims. Nobody seems to agree with you, but you stick to your view. This is clearly not going anywhere. Can we at least make the truce where you don't bring this up for a while and stick to just discussions on J-10s?
- Status