J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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tphuang

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Interesting, guess it would probably be too much to hope that someone has a picture of the new ECM pod? I wonder if it looks anything like the underwing semi-integrated ones we seen on the J10B.

7:1 sounds like quite a landslide victory. Considering that if this was against J11Bs, then they should have pretty much equivilant radar and avionics, and assuming the pilots are of similar quality, the difference would thus appear to be the J10 airframe design. That would be quite an achievement against the still mighty Flanker design.

I know I sometimes give SAC a lot of flak, but it's hard to credit that even they would be so bad as to not achieving at least some improvements over the J11A with the J11B. If we accept that assumption, then the J10A would enjoy a big advantage over everything except maybe the latest Su35s and maybe the MKI. The J10B is rumoured to be a big step up from the J10A in A-A.

If China ever clear the J10A or B for export, they might really cause a stir when detailed specs are released for them and/or if they take part in a serious competition.

shouldn't be too surprising considering how badly J-11A whipped J-11B. It looks like the 1st division J-11B pilots simply haven't learnt how to to use all of the electronics on J-11B yet. A lot of these confrontations, you have to look at who the pilots are too. The pilots from the 2nd division and 44th divisions have apparently being really good.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
does anyone know the amount of flying hours PLAAF pilots gets and which divsions/regiments have the highest?

its a very good indication of the fighter pilot qaulity, Pakistan has a average of around 200-220 hours per year, some of the elite sqaudrons of the Pakistan Air Force clock around 20 hours per month, thats 240 hours per year which is almost as high as the Israeli airforce and approaching close to what USAF fly, if you add up the incident rate of PAF against its flying hours is amongst the highest in the world

i think PLAAF has to increase flying hours for its top end aircraft, but for that u need a ground crew which is second to none because maintanence goes through the roof
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
shouldn't be too surprising considering how badly J-11A whipped J-11B. It looks like the 1st division J-11B pilots simply haven't learnt how to to use all of the electronics on J-11B yet. A lot of these confrontations, you have to look at who the pilots are too. The pilots from the 2nd division and 44th divisions have apparently being really good.

Perhaps the installation of AESA was materialized for the J-11B to make up for the lack of skill; the J-11B has never won a reported drill, to my surprise, even when its original radar was more powerful than the J-10 and it features airframe lightening and radar absorbent material. It seems that they are now refocusing the aircraft's role to BVR interception rather than close range dogfights, considering that they even lost out to J-7s once.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
does anyone know the amount of flying hours PLAAF pilots gets and which divsions/regiments have the highest?

its a very good indication of the fighter pilot qaulity, Pakistan has a average of around 200-220 hours per year, some of the elite sqaudrons of the Pakistan Air Force clock around 20 hours per month, thats 240 hours per year which is almost as high as the Israeli airforce and approaching close to what USAF fly, if you add up the incident rate of PAF against its flying hours is amongst the highest in the world

i think PLAAF has to increase flying hours for its top end aircraft, but for that u need a ground crew which is second to none because maintanence goes through the roof

Hi

To you knowledge does PAF regularly flies aggressor training with PLAAF/PLAN units? at PLA Air combat training bases?

If not I think PAF/PLAAF should. at least considering that PLA needs some external experiences in ACM and PAF need some experience dealing with a numerical superior foe. especially consider large number of flankers in PLAAF inventory
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
you are right Asif.. the PAF are eons ahead of the Navy and the Army when it comes to prepardness and skills and certainly comparable to many Western forces in terms of experience and sill........ I think it's because the selection process for pilots and it's crew are far far more selective than when finding an infantry grunt or a sailor...( no offence to certain folks). Anyway below is a quote from a famous USAF aviator himself.......

“When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The U.S. and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by Air Marshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me around to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about five hundred airplanes, more than half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese MiG-19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.

The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I’m certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

I didn’t get involved in the actual combat because that would’ve been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, “Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?” They couldn’t believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, “I’m the American Defense Rep here. That’s what I’m doing.”


(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF)

The PAF remains the only foreign air force in the world to have received Chuck Yeager’s admiration – a recommendation which the PAF is proud of. (Source: PIADS)
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
7:1 sounds like quite a landslide victory. Considering that if this was against J11Bs, then they should have pretty much equivilant radar and avionics, and assuming the pilots are of similar quality, the difference would thus appear to be the J10 airframe design. That would be quite an achievement against the still mighty Flanker design.

If China ever clear the J10A or B for export, they might really cause a stir when detailed specs are released for them and/or if they take part in a serious competition.

There were some reports of Turkish pilots in F4s beating PLAAF pilots flying Flankers 8:1. I wonder if that's accurate too.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Hi

To you knowledge does PAF regularly flies aggressor training with PLAAF/PLAN units? at PLA Air combat training bases?

If not I think PAF/PLAAF should. at least considering that PLA needs some external experiences in ACM and PAF need some experience dealing with a numerical superior foe. especially consider large number of flankers in PLAAF inventory


No never heard of any, and PAF does not need any experience in dealing with a numerical superior foe, its been core part of PAF doctrine for almost 7 decades

What we could benefit is from Flanker capability’s, since India’s premier fighter is the Sukhoi-30 MKI, but PAF pilots already flown PLAAF Flankers and pitted against them, so we know Flanker capability’s very well, enough to exploit its weakness’s in time of war , Malaysia also offer good information and is close to Pakistan, within visual range Flanker is at disadvantage, its very easy to get visual on and although it has very good acceleration its suffers due to its size and weight, and WVR is kill zone for Pakistan Air force anyway

As for PLAAF pilots as far as I know they have excellent leadership and even better guidance, the higher echelon really know what they are doing, but pilots are too rigid and still follow rigid doctrine, discipline and following instructions seems to be a problem and in any professional airforce these elements are not acceptable, any major mistake and this should be an dismissal, from pilots to air commodore, mistakes are simply not allowed

There is also a huge gap difference between Flanker/J10 pilots when compared to the rest of the PLAAF fleet, all Flanker/J10 pilots are good while the rest suffer from sporadic and inconsistency’s

I think PLAAF should send one of its elite J10 Regiments to Pakistan and have a exercise with our JF17 Squadron’s
 

escobar

Brigadier
:)

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