J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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Gallaghan36

Banned Idiot
"Finally, I think the top brass in China realise this already and they are going towards building a similiar military might of comparable to USA. It need not be the same number but enough to project a military might. I give example, USA has 10 CVN, maybe China just need to have 4-5 will be enough to project its might in a decent scale."

@Lion: IMHO China doesn't need that much carriers. A maximum of 3 should be enough. I CVBG for overseas deployment to help with humanitarian missions, peacekeeping, international exercises and diversion group(to attract USN attention away from Taiwan Strait area) and 2 more CVBGs to stay in waters close to China's coast. Plus, i think future naval power would rely more on stealth destroyers and cruisers(like DDX) armed with SAMs and LACMs. For example, a heavy cruiser armed with SAMs, ASCMs and up to 60 stealth LACMs would be probably 2-3 times cheaper than the cost of operating and maintaning a medium-sized carrier that can hold 50 combat aircraft.

If PLAN has 1 CVBG for overseas deployment, i guess it will be based in Pakistan.
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
A lot will depend on how the Chinese 5th gen develops. The ideal solution would be that the J10 would be to the air force what the Type 96 is to the army, and the new 5th gen will be the equivalent of the Type 99.

SAC will either get subcontracting jobs to stay alive, or they will make J15s for the Navy's planned aircraft carriers for the next few decades, although there is a good chance a naval J10 and/or new 5th gen will be developed at some point to take over.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
If the rumors posted in the next gen thread are correct, the stuff in development are:
J-10B and follow up(s)
J-11BS (maybe even done)
Navalized J-11
J-XX heavy fighter from CAC
J-XX medium fighter from SAC (also twin engined, less overall performance, cheaper I guess)
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
"Finally, I think the top brass in China realise this already and they are going towards building a similiar military might of comparable to USA. It need not be the same number but enough to project a military might. I give example, USA has 10 CVN, maybe China just need to have 4-5 will be enough to project its might in a decent scale."

@Lion: IMHO China doesn't need that much carriers. A maximum of 3 should be enough. I CVBG for overseas deployment to help with humanitarian missions, peacekeeping, international exercises and diversion group(to attract USN attention away from Taiwan Strait area) and 2 more CVBGs to stay in waters close to China's coast. Plus, i think future naval power would rely more on stealth destroyers and cruisers(like DDX) armed with SAMs and LACMs. For example, a heavy cruiser armed with SAMs, ASCMs and up to 60 stealth LACMs would be probably 2-3 times cheaper than the cost of operating and maintaning a medium-sized carrier that can hold 50 combat aircraft.

If PLAN has 1 CVBG for overseas deployment, i guess it will be based in Pakistan.

And this come from the same guy who propose China to built 1000 plus J-10. Without CVBG, how the hell do you sent your fighters out? And don't tell me that US's F16 are also not able to be carried by carrier.

I mean, come on, do China has as much foreign bases as US? And how do the US come up with so much foreign bases? Because they can project their power out easily... and that is because they have so many CVBG.

Plus, many people have been telling you... stop plucking figures from thin air... without any substantial backings!

Plus in previous thread, you say about providing job opportunity to people in China... that is the most hilarious and (pardon me saying) illogical thinking... you think pilots and maintanence crew can just be picked out and train that easily? How many pilots trainees actually make it to fly a fighter after tedious training do you reckon.

1000+ J-10? That is stupid. Plain stupid.

Although you have valid point part of the solution is to tie chinese interest with major world power interest. If material/resources is blocked first thing china will do is to divert resources used for export for domestic use.

Parry a thousand pound with one ounce, by securing chinese-other party co-interest less effort is required on the chinese part.

I see lot's of fengqin (not you, of course) try to say china will do this or that, or china will drop US bonds. That's is the stupidst thing that could happen. Why would US hold back when it has nothing left to lose?

China wants a clipped or gradually dimishing US influence, and they are feeding them toward this direction. A sudden implosion is actually not what they wanted to see. What will happen to the thousands of nukes if US government lost control? Same thing can be said about those wishing collapse of china - that is the most stupid thing you can wish for.

Part of the reason why nuclear proliferation is an issue is because a regime change is much harder when a country has nuclear weapon. Not because the current leader might use it but because it might fall into the wrong hand in ensuing chaos. Actually, once a country has nuclear weapons, other countries worse nightmare is the instability and collapse of said country.

Regarding J-10 I don't think it is a good idea to produce 1000 J-10s. It would be too late when F-35 is already close to deployment. It also eats resources away from other more important projects. I think J-10 will remain more or less the current amount while J-8 will be upgraded and J-7 phased away as newer aircraft (and maybe newer and modified version of J-11 and J-10) came into surface. There is too much baggage in the PLA to go for a complete makeover.

Producing thousands of J-10s will just ensure you have thousands of J-7 equivalent in the future.

I support this analogy. China do not need 1000+ J-10 now. How many J-10 are being produced each year, to maintain the quality of this aircraft and not just quantity without quality.

I have been stressing in many posts that China's economy is not as strong and robust as many had think or dream to be. She has the world largest population, and many are still quite poor. SHe need to divert her budgets to different areas and not just to build a massive airforce.

Plus have you seen US building 1000 F-22 or F-35 nowaday? The reason for that huge number of F-16 and F-15 was a remnant of the time of cold war when it was needed.

But I do support the idea of CHina having more carriers and destroyers to ensure her supply of raw material was stable and safe. But since China do not have that much foreign bases, so she would have to rely on her carriers.
 

Gallaghan36

Banned Idiot
Just curious: How many J-10s are now in PLAAF service? What is the rate of production per year? Can it be increased by building more factories and hiring more engineers? Are J-10 squadrons equipped with a decent number of PL-12 BVRAAMs? Can the cost of a J-10 be reduced to less than 30 millionUSD per unit? Has China sold any to Iran? Should China urge Pakistan to buy an additional 100 J-10s to reduce cost of production in China?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Just curious: How many J-10s are now in PLAAF service? What is the rate of production per year? Can it be increased by building more factories and hiring more engineers? Are J-10 squadrons equipped with a decent number of PL-12 BVRAAMs? Can the cost of a J-10 be reduced to less than 30 millionUSD per unit? Has China sold any to Iran? Should China urge Pakistan to buy an additional 100 J-10s to reduce cost of production in China?

Wikipedia put the total number of J-10s in active service at 80 but their source was from 08 and probably outdated. The real number is probably between 100-200 and no one could be sure because of the stringent Chinese policy on information disclosure. What I know for sure, however, is that China is not selling J-10s to Iran, at least not yet. The rumor has been disproven a long time ago.

Pakistan will not purchase J-10s until 2014. By that time there will probably be enough J-10s already.
 

Gallaghan36

Banned Idiot
I see. How about the engines? How come China has to rely on Russian engines for J-10s for so long? Isn't the WS-10A suppose to replace the Russian engines? Until China can fit the J-10s with locally-made engines, China won't be able to freely ramp up production nor can she export to countries.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
um, aren't j10 nubmers in plaaf reltively well known due to the known number of units that stood up over time? Haven't all those units been covered by cctv? If answer to that is yes, then, and website like scramble.nl supports it, we can say there are 7 units active. Each unit has 28 shelters (as seen on google earth imagery), whereas other units (like j11) have 24 shelters. One could then conclude it is likely plaaf has 7 times 28 j10s. That would make 196 j10s. That is quite within number of ordered al31 engines from russia all these years, plus it is also quite achievable as it puts the annual production, since the plane went into serial production in 2003 in little under 24 frames per year - a very realistic number.
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
I agree with Gallaghan assertion. China has outgrown itself from regional power into a superpower. It cannot just think abt its own business and nothing will happen.

USA try to stay away from trouble/rest of the world trouble before WWII after attaining economy might. Guess what happen?

If current China want to ensure prosperity,continue growth of econ and stability. Strong projection power of military is a must.

Superpower in what area country economy? It still is focusing on country development, only coastal cities are moderately developed its flooding money into central china at the moment. Well China has only thought about itself and its done fine. China only cares about not military power. It caring about development and stability of the population. Your using prior WW2 thinking in 21st century? That is really outdated thinking. So then domino theory of communism is still at play? Asian invasion? Chinese people come to Australia to dig only for gold? British empire can hold treaties over China still?

China has always took the path that the people and development comes first and military is their to safeguard and defend them. Chinese people don't think the same as western people, we have different priorities and values.
 
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