Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

sheogorath

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
Depends though. It also depends on how far you are willing to go and for how long. We saw Russia use the same tactics as Israel during Russia's brutal war in Chechnya against Islamist/muslim "freedom fighters" in chechen . It worked for Russia at the end of the day.
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Missing the part where Russian reconstructed Chechnya whole, named the son of one of the former rebels as ruler and gave them jobs. Israeli racism and genocidal hatred for palestinians won't allow for that, so no, not even remotely the same.

The only way Gaza is getting reconstructed by Israel is when all the Palestinians are either driven out or dead and they need beach condos for the settlers.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
October 7th and its following and still ongoing war has been a massive strategic loss for Israel and a massive victory for the Muslims. Israel because of its overwhelming superiority in Air Force and Air defence was always expected to Bomb the hell out of all of its neighbours. So, I don't think anyone expected a different outcome after Oct 7. This was Israel's 911 times 10. This was a massive humiliation to see "Mowed grass" as Israel calls Hamas to do a surprise attack like that and kill thousands.

It was clear to everyone with a bit of knowledge on the region that the only way for Palestinians and Arab Muslims in general to win against Israel is to slowly bleed Israel to death by thousand cuts. Make Israel unlivable, make Jews lose faith in having any kind of security and prosperity in Israel and thus make them migrate back to Europe.

October 7th and the subsequent War has made most Israelis fear for their safety like never before. They were subject to massive Missile attacks, Drone attacks and Northern Israel pretty much became evacuated. This Psychological Trauma is the real strategic victory for the Muslims.

As for the expected massive retaliation from Israel against the Muslim Neighbours, well this was completely expected. Yes, Israel would bomb the hell out of Gaza as they have done before, Yes they would kill thousands, as they have done before. But Muslims always knew that they have to pay for this war with blood. As long as Gazans do not all die or do not get forced to migrate out, that is a victory. As long as there is "grass" in the lawn, it will always grow back. Hamas losing its fighters? Easily replinishable. Hezbollah losing its fighters? Also totally nothing new about it and also totally replacable.

As for Iran, no one ever expected that Iran attack Israel with 100s of Missiles and get away with it, but they did. Israel's response to Iran's attacks has been very underwhelming. The fact Israel can do covert killing in Iran is nothing new. But Israel couldn't even Bomb one city in Iran.

Iran losing its Alawaite ally in Syria is a loss for them true, but losing to Al Qaeda offshoot with even more Anti-Israel fervor is not a victory for Israel and US.

The long term Trajectory of the region is still the same, Muslims massively out producing Jews, Muslims becoming richer more sophisticated, more militarily capable and the West slowly weakening and losing influence in the middle east due to the rise of China. Over the long term, Israel is toast. This was just one more battle that they lost with many more to come.
 
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W20

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is not even remotely comparable.

Russia is a Civilized state that grants Citizenship to the population of the territory it controls.

"Our colonial project" (Vladimir Jabotinsky) founded (1917-) by the British Empire and a group of fanatic and violent Poles, Ukrainians and Lithuanians is based on an ideology (Book of Joshua, Book of Deuteronomy) that establishes a very clear and brutal distinction between "a (dominant) people" and a subjugated population: "the people of the land" ("am ha'eretz") of "the land of Canaan".

In the first century, "Canaanite slave" and "Canaanite slavery" were common phrases. Such is the drive for domination of this ideology that in the original version of this bloody remake, as reaction to the oligarchy domination, the yehudim of Galilea, Perea and Idumea and even some from Judea itself declared war on the yehudim of the Temple-City.

The Zionist regime does not recognize the local population as Citizens, a large part of them live in ghettos without civil rights and under military domination by artillery and aviation.

The Palestinian ghettos of course have autonomous administration as the Warsaw ghetto had autonomous administration.
 
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W20

Junior Member
Registered Member
The first Palestinians enslaved by this Mental Software were the sons of "the firstborn": the Arabhebrew population of the "land of Canaan"

The second ones who played the role of "people of the land" were the Ukrainians, until the earthly paradise was destroyed by the Cossacks and the Russians

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anamensis25

New Member
Registered Member
BBC version of deal between Israel and Hamas confirms that Trump delegates put a hell of pressure on Netanyahu. Kudos for Trump:

"This week, Hamas official Bassem Naim told Al Arabiya he "couldn't imagine that [the deal] could be possible without the pressure of the incoming administration led by President Trump" - and specifically cited Witkoff's presence at the talks."

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coolgod

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
October 7th and its following and still ongoing war has been a massive strategic loss for Israel and a massive victory for the Muslims. Israel because of its overwhelming superiority in Air Force and Air defence was always expected to Bomb the hell out of all of its neighbours. So, I don't think anyone expected a different outcome after Oct 7. This was Israel's 911 times 10. This was a massive humiliation to see "Mowed grass" as Israel calls Hamas to do a surprise attack like that and kill thousands.

It was clear to everyone with a bit of knowledge on the region that the only way for Palestinians and Arab Muslims in general to win against Israel is to slowly bleed Israel to death by thousand cuts. Make Israel unlivable, make Jews lose faith in having any kind of security and prosperity in Israel and thus make them migrate back to Europe.

October 7th and the subsequent War has made most Israelis fear for their safety like never before. They were subject to massive Missile attacks, Drone attacks and Northern Israel pretty much became evacuated. This Psychological Trauma is the real strategic victory for the Muslims.

As for the expected massive retaliation from Israel against the Muslim Neighbours, well this was completely expected. Yes, Israel would bomb the hell out of Gaza as they have done before, Yes they would kill thousands, as they have done before. But Muslims always knew that they have to pay for this war with blood. As long as Gazans do not all die or do not get forced to migrate out, that is a victory. As long as there is "grass" in the lawn, it will always grow back. Hamas losing its fighters? Easily replinishable. Hezbollah losing its fighters? Also totally nothing new about it and also totally replacable.

As for Iran, no one ever expected that Iran attack Israel with 100s of Missiles and get away with it, but they did. Israel's response to Iran's attacks has been very underwhelming. The fact Israel can do covert killing in Iran is nothing new. But Israel couldn't even Bomb one city in Iran.

Iran losing its Alawaite ally in Syria is a loss for them true, but losing to Al Qaeda offshoot with even more Anti-Israel fervor is not a victory for Israel and US.

The long term Trajectory of the region is still the same, Muslims massively out producing Jews, Muslims becoming richer more sophisticated, more militarily capable and the West slowly weakening and losing influence in the middle east due to the rise of China. Over the long term, Israel is toast. This was just one more battle that they lost with many more to come.
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I admire your support for the Palestinians, but your comments are out of touch with the reality. In the past few months, the PLO in the west banks were targeting and physically removing Palestinian resistance groups in the west bank. UAE is sending spies to Lebanon disguised as Red Crescent aid workers to locate Hezbollah rocket launching sites. Most of the non-Israeli aligned middle east is disunited and on fire, yes Isreal's PR took a hit, but they'll continue normalizing relations with neighbours like the Saudis.
 
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Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
coolgod said:
I admire your support for the Palestinians, but your comments are out of touch with the reality. In the past few months, the PLO in the west banks were targeting and physically removing Palestinian resistance groups in the west bank. UAE is sending spies to Lebanon disguised as Red Crescent aid workers to locate Hezbollah rocket launching sites. Most of the non-Israeli aligned middle east is disunited and on fire, yes Isreal's PR took a hit, but they'll continue normalizing relations with neighbours like the Saudis.
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I think deep down people like that know all what you are saying is the reality. However when you are so ideologically and religiously supporting a cause its hard to accept anything that isn't total victory for your side. So strong emotions are bound to cloud people's judgement. For someone to think Hamas and Hezbollah have won the war shows there is not much you can do to make them see that it's not the case.
 
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cqxt11

New Member
Registered Member
the first of the prisoner swaps is complete, 90 for 3. must have been an act of random goodwill from israel since they totally won after all and wouldn't need to make the original concessions to get some semblance of fulfillment for their own goals.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
coolgod said:
I admire your support for the Palestinians, but your comments are out of touch with the reality. In the past few months, the PLO in the west banks were targeting and physically removing Palestinian resistance groups in the west bank. UAE is sending spies to Lebanon disguised as Red Crescent aid workers to locate Hezbollah rocket launching sites. Most of the non-Israeli aligned middle east is disunited and on fire, yes Isreal's PR took a hit, but they'll continue normalizing relations with neighbours like the Saudis.
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I think you forgot the full name of PLO (Palestinian liberation Org), it is ALSO a resistance group. Yes, they have changed their strategy from violent insurgency to other means of advocacy but that doesn't change the fact PLO also wants independence for palestinians as well. Fight between Hamas and PLO is like the fight between CCP and KMT, they have different visions for the future of their country but the goal is the same, which is independence.

What difference does it make if Israel can "normalize" with Saudis when Hamas is still in power in Gaza, Hezbollah is still supreme in Lebanon. They will again recruit more fighters, get more missiles and there will be a flare up of missiles once again in a few years (Or Months?).

Saudi dictators will still have to cater to their population which is extreme anti-Israel and has become more so since Oct 7th. Turkey is getting powerful and wants to reduce Israeli power as well. Iran is getting more and more tech from Russia and China. The same govts propped by the west in Egypt, Jordan or Gulf arab states could fall at anytime and replaced by an anti-western and anti-israel govt. These govts are unpopular and their backer the west is declining and the more China gets influence in those countries, the more powerful the anti-western forces will get. Its only going get worse for Israel not better.
 
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