Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

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Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
Topazchen said:
These are probably the first "revolutionaries" in the world who are not interested in the weapons and military infrastructure of the government they defeated .



Israel has been bombing ammo dumps ,jets and AD without a protest from HTS .
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Be realistic. What do you want HTS to do? Fight Israel? Lol
These guys just took over a country that is financially bankrupt and whose cities are all in ruins/destroyed and with over 70% of population living in poverty accoridng to the UN and over half of the country's population displaced/sanctioned and isolated by the international community basically and all this due to 1 man and his thirst for power at all cost. And now that they finally suceeded in theowing out this power hungry tyrant after 14 years of war and suffering, you want them to start a hostile conflict with the pre-emininent military power in the region which will only make things worse for the people/country?
Seriously, people here need to be realistic. Syria's leaders priorities at the moment lie elsewhere. They have a monumental task at hand, and i don't envy them one bit( wouldn'twabt to be in their shoes). The amount of work they have to do is immense. So give them time at least to first set up themselves and their rule in the country. They have barely even taken power and you guys are already demanding from them what not even Assad dared to do even at his regimes peak. Lol Calm down dude. I know many here don't like them and are sad the Assad regime fell. But come on we can still at least be rational.

I'm actually impressed(so far) by Syria's new leader. The guy seems to have matured alot and learned from observing the region and their past failures . He seem very calm/down to earth and rational not ideological as i would have expected. If he can remain like that and unite the country MAYBE just MAYBE Syria might rise up again for the best. SYRIA needs a strong pragmatic/rational leader that looks after Syrias interests ONLY and selfishly thinks about his country's interests ONLY not the interests of Iran,Lebanon, Palestine, Russia, Turkey, KSA, US or whatever.
 
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obj 705A

obj 705A

Junior Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Sooner or later 400 million Muslims in the middle east, will have enough power and Israel's western backers will weaken enough that Israel will no longer be able to win in a war.
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400 million muslim spectators. what will they do aside from boycotting fried chicken and Mcdonalds! by the time they muster up "enough power" the Palestinians would have long been kicked out of Palestine followed by arab countries normalizing relations with Israel.
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
Be realistic. What do you want HTS to do? Fight Israel? Lol
These guys just took over a country that is financially bankrupt and whose cities are all in ruins/destroyed and with over 70% of population living in poverty accoridng to the UN and over half of the country's population displaced/sanctioned and isolated by the international community basically and all this due to 1 man and his thirst for power at all cost. And now that they finally suceeded in theowing out this power hungry tyrant after 14 years of war and suffering, you want them to start a hostile conflict with the pre-emininent military power in the region which will only make things worse for the people/country?
Seriously, people here need to be realistic. Syria's leaders priorities at the moment lie elsewhere. They have a monumental task at hand, and i don't envy them one bit( wouldn'twabt to be in their shoes). The amount of work they have to do is immense. So give them time at least to first set up themselves and their rule in the country. They have barely even taken power and you guys are already demanding from them what not even Assad dared to do even at his regimes peak. Lol Calm down dude. I know many here don't like them and are sad the Assad regime fell. But come on we can still at least be rational.

I'm actually impressed(so far) by Syria's new leader. The guy seems to have matured alot and learned from observing the region and their past failures . He seem very calm/down to earth and rational not ideological as i would have expected. If he can remain like that and unite the country MAYBE just MAYBE Syria might rise up again for the best. SYRIA needs a strong pragmatic/rational leader that looks after Syrias interests ONLY and selfishly thinks about his country's interests ONLY not the interests of Iran,Lebanon, Palestine, Russia, Turkey, KSA, US or whatever.
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He learnt the lesson. The little boss in the vicinity is not Iran or Russia or Hezbollah or whatever. It's Israel. And behind the little boss there is the final big boss, the US. So the rest of the region and, Syria being the last, has finally realized that if they want to develop, they gotta side with the little boss.

He knows that if they don't side with Israel, they will pop up every month or so, destroy a power plant here, a hospital there, a school, a port, etc. Basically if Israel wishes, it can inflict multi-hundred million damage to Syria with each sortie, and more or less keep Syria in poverty for decades.

The Middle East and the multi-hundred million Muslims can scream and shout all they want but Israel can shut them all up with a fully armed F-35 sortie. In front of a cruise missile, all PR and keyboard warriors and boycotts are just a fart in the wind. Netanyahu has proven everyone wrong, hard power trumps all.

Now if he is a Israel/US plant or whatever, dunno. Either way, imo there is no other way forward for Syria than making friends or whatever until Israel stop bombing and acting against them. Syria needs at least 15 years of peace to kinda recover from all the accumulated damage it has occured

Just get ready though, going to get posts about how Israel is doomed and collapsing. Make-A-Wish et al
 
B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Overbom said:
He learnt the lesson. The little boss in the vicinity is not Iran or Russia or Hezbollah or whatever. It's Israel. And behind the little boss there is the final big boss, the US. So the rest of the region and, Syria being the last, has finally realized that if they want to develop, they gotta side with the little boss.

He knows that if they don't side with Israel, they will pop up every month or so, destroy a power plant here, a hospital there, a school, a port, etc. Basically if Israel wishes, it can inflict multi-hundred million damage to Syria with each sortie, and more or less keep Syria in poverty for decades.

The Middle East and the multi-hundred million Muslims can scream and shout all they want but Israel can shut them all up with a fully armed F-35 sortie. In front of a cruise missile, all PR and keyboard warriors and boycotts are just a fart in the wind. Netanyahu has proven everyone wrong, hard power trumps all.

Now if he is a Israel/US plant or whatever, dunno. Either way, imo there is no other way forward for Syria than making friends or whatever until Israel stop bombing and acting against them. Syria needs at least 15 years of peace to kinda recover from all the accumulated damage it has occured

Just get ready though, going to get posts about how Israel is doomed and collapsing. Make-A-Wish et al
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Your Israel is great narrative becomes more convincing if/when Israel could finally take that Grozny sized city after 1.5 years. I guess Israel also faces some unresolved boss fights in the form of Gaza first and then the territory they retreated from in Lebanon.

Syria too need to work on small targets first, like the kurds. Just like Israel, going all the way to final boss (Iran for Israel, Israel for Syria) won't work out at this moment.
 
Luke Warmwar

Luke Warmwar

New Member
Registered Member
It’s hard to see this panning out to be anything other than an Israeli/US strategic victory.

Gaza’s easy to handle: seal the entrances and exits, and let famine and disease do the rest. There’s no rush. (Hostages don’t matter.)

West Bank? They have the PA as a collaborator. They can just keep settling as they like, using the Palestinian population as reserve labour.

Lebanon? They got the rockets into northern Israel to stop, decapitated Hezbollah, destroyed much of its social infrastructure (banks etc) and blew up a lot of weapon caches. It will be much harder for Iran to restock without a friendly regime in Syria. Now it’s just a matter of returning the settlers to the north, which will happen in time.

Syria? Complete wipeout. The old regime fell, and the new regime looks like it will be more pliant. Even if it ultimately isn’t, Israel’s preemptively destroyed its military and taken strategic territory. It won’t be allowed to rebuild if it poses any sort of threat to Israel.

Iran? Humiliated. Its proxies are decimated, its ‘hezbollah deterrent’ lost, and its embassies and generals are bombed with impunity. With the loss of Syria, Israel now has greater access to Iranian skies. Iran best deterrent now is threatening to take out the oil of the entire region. The best we can say is they demonstrated some reasonably impressive conventional rockets.

Honestly, the Yemeni are the most impressive actors. They came straight out of a horrific war with the Saudis to pick a fight with the world hegemon. The US hasn’t been able to deter their attacks. Overall, punched far above their weight.

It’s an L for Russia and China too. Russia lost their primary proxy in the region, and at best may be able to negotiate for continued access to its bases. We laugh about the plight of Ukraine, but really this was the west’s goal: tie up Russian capacity on its border, so it can’t properly support its allies further afield.

China was missing in action entirely. With the MENA mopped up, the US can turn its attention back to China. With Syria flipped, pressure increases on Iran, and a Pakistan-Iran pathway is one of China’s best bets for energy independence in a siege scenario. Not to mention the breathing room given to ETIM types. You can even say the failure started post-Syrian Civil War, where China allowed the existing regime to be starved and underdeveloped, leading to its weakness. (A mistake China repeats with other anti-US states like Venezuela, Cuba, and to an extent the DPRK.)

It’s unfortunate, but the Israelis and Americans played their cards well. (And shoutout to Türkiye too—first the Azerbaijan victory, and now this.)
 
M

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Luke Warmwar said:
It’s hard to see this panning out to be anything other than an Israeli/US strategic victory.

Gaza’s easy to handle: seal the entrances and exits, and let famine and disease do the rest. There’s no rush. (Hostages don’t matter.)

West Bank? They have the PA as a collaborator. They can just keep settling as they like, using the Palestinian population as reserve labour.

Lebanon? They got the rockets into northern Israel to stop, decapitated Hezbollah, destroyed much of its social infrastructure (banks etc) and blew up a lot of weapon caches. It will be much harder for Iran to restock without a friendly regime in Syria. Now it’s just a matter of returning the settlers to the north, which will happen in time.

Syria? Complete wipeout. The old regime fell, and the new regime looks like it will be more pliant. Even if it ultimately isn’t, Israel’s preemptively destroyed its military and taken strategic territory. It won’t be allowed to rebuild if it poses any sort of threat to Israel.

Iran? Humiliated. Its proxies are decimated, its ‘hezbollah deterrent’ lost, and its embassies and generals are bombed with impunity. With the loss of Syria, Israel now has greater access to Iranian skies. Iran best deterrent now is threatening to take out the oil of the entire region. The best we can say is they demonstrated some reasonably impressive conventional rockets.

Honestly, the Yemeni are the most impressive actors. They came straight out of a horrific war with the Saudis to pick a fight with the world hegemon. The US hasn’t been able to deter their attacks. Overall, punched far above their weight.

It’s an L for Russia and China too. Russia lost their primary proxy in the region, and at best may be able to negotiate for continued access to its bases. We laugh about the plight of Ukraine, but really this was the west’s goal: tie up Russian capacity on its border, so it can’t properly support its allies further afield.

China was missing in action entirely. With the MENA mopped up, the US can turn its attention back to China. With Syria flipped, pressure increases on Iran, and a Pakistan-Iran pathway is one of China’s best bets for energy independence in a siege scenario. Not to mention the breathing room given to ETIM types. You can even say the failure started post-Syrian Civil War, where China allowed the existing regime to be starved and underdeveloped, leading to its weakness. (A mistake China repeats with other anti-US states like Venezuela, Cuba, and to an extent the DPRK.)

It’s unfortunate, but the Israelis and Americans played their cards well. (And shoutout to Türkiye too—first the Azerbaijan victory, and now this.)
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You can lose a match without suffering long term harm. Do you think the average Iranian citizen cares much about Syria? For Syria, it was a fight to the death. For Iran, it's a sports match

With nasrallah gone and Iran much less religious than after the revolution, Iranian interest in Hezbollah is smaller.

The debt owed to Syria and the Assad family has been paid off and Iran is finally free of the ruinous entanglements with incompetent Arabs. Money that would have been wasted in Syria can now be used more productively

Israel has managed to turn itself into a pariah and the more Arabs they kill in Gaza the better Iran looks in the world. Criticising Israel is normal now and it's hard to convince people that they need to hate Iran for criticising Israel when they're actively carrying out a genocide. It might be perverse, but Iran is a major beneficiary of the genocide

The cherry on top is to finally get access to modern planes, which China and Russia have been refusing to sell for years


Sure, if there's a major us backed air campaign to bomb Iranian infrastructure, then it's all going to turn into a devastating loss and force nuclearisation. But so far, Iran managed to navigate a dangerous situation ok and come out in better shape than it was before Hamas attacked
 
Z

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
Be realistic. What do you want HTS to do? Fight Israel? Lol
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Michael90 said:
These guys just took over a country that is financially bankrupt and whose cities are all in ruins/destroyed and with over 70% of population living in poverty accoridng to the UN and over half of the country's population displaced/sanctioned and isolated by the international community basically and all this due to 1 man and his thirst for power at all cost.
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Michael90 said:
I'm actually impressed(so far) by Syria's new leader. The guy seems to have matured alot and learned from observing the region and their past failures . He seem very calm/down to earth and rational not ideological as i would have expected. If he can remain like that and unite the country MAYBE just MAYBE Syria might rise up again for the best. SYRIA needs a strong pragmatic/rational leader that looks after Syrias interests ONLY and selfishly thinks about his country's interests ONLY not the interests of Iran,Lebanon, Palestine, Russia, Turkey, KSA, US or whatever.
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After reading your words, I can already imagine how Western media will portray Jurani and HTS as "good people".
Your thinking is still stuck at 'If the bad guys leave, everything will get better'.
Throwing all the problems onto Assad is a simple idea, but it is of no help in solving real-world problems.

Jurani's' outstanding abilities' are only relative. From his governance in Idlib, he is at best the 'one eyed king of the blind country'.
The victory came too soon. It was the American sanctions bill that helped them "pick up" a country. In reality, he may have to cooperate with officials of the former Syrian government for a long time. Moreover, sharing power with other factions that possess military power is also a challenge.
Perhaps he is good at pleasing the West, but don't imagine him as a great savior.
No matter how much you praise Jurani's "realism", Syria is now the front line of the confrontation between Israel and Turkey, and his opinion is irrelevant.
 
S

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
you want them to start a hostile conflict with the pre-emininent military power in the region which will only make things worse for the people/country?
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Problem is they already invaded. Clearly the lack of military response to this is worrysome as there is no telling nor any constrain to the invading side who they want to bomb or which part of the country they want to invade next. Unless somehow the "sponsor" for this new Syrian government can provide some form of security guarantee.


Michael90 said:
SYRIA needs a strong pragmatic/rational leader that looks after Syrias interests ONLY and selfishly thinks about his country's interests ONLY not the interests of Iran,Lebanon, Palestine, Russia, Turkey, KSA, US or whatever.
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Unfortunately for you, the HTS is Turkish linked as well as probably plethora of other countries (e.g Qatar) Which funded the whole revolution thingy back in 2011.. those TOW Missiles dont just gonna buy themselves afterall.
 
T

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
obj 705A said:
400 million muslim spectators. what will they do aside from boycotting fried chicken and Mcdonalds! by the time they muster up "enough power" the Palestinians would have long been kicked out of Palestine followed by arab countries normalizing relations with Israel.
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Azeri's were kicked out of Nagorno Karabakh too. But Demographics was in their favor(3 times population) and once they gained enough strength, they took it over again and Armenians evacuated on their own. Now Azeri's are back again. If China had a century of Humiliation, maybe the Arabs could have 2 centuries of Humiliation. But eventually all humans will industrialize, their military power will equalize and difference between countries will be their population strength.

Whatever power israeli's have, it comes from European domination over the world for the last centuries. Most Jews got their education, tech and military power from Europeans or their settler colonies. But this extreme advantage enjoyed by Europeans over everyone else is eroding. The world is moving towards great convergance. So, its inevitable that Muslims in the middle east will become industrialized, modernized and have enough power to defeat Israel. Once they do, Israelis will evacuate on their own, and Arabs will be back in control.
 
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