Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

tankphobia said:

I think while the cause is just, not only is there no clear cut resolution that will be acceptable to both parties, the methods of resistance is also basically just terrorism. If say the Arab nations do a rematch with their conventional army to expel the Israeli it should be easier to stomach.

But instead you have Hamas doing a complicated offensive just to start shooting civilians in the street, parading their dead bodies around which is not really achieving the objectives for the Palestinian cause in regaining their homeland, only inviting Israel to bomb Gaza harder.

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Any attacks on civilians should be condemned. However, when Han Chinese were massacred during XJ riots most Westerners and their government and MSM were calling these terrorists as freedom fighters. What Hamas did is wrong but MSM and Westerners calling out and crying out about such attacks on civilians only because Israel is an ally of the West not because it is a crime on innocents. Westerners and MSM can easily turn a blind eye if it is the other way around.

The cause is just but the world doesn't care or not care enough to do anything. Arab nations have abandoned Palestinians. Israel is longer willing to entertain a two state solution as Might is right.

When Native Americans killed those settlers. Are they terrorists or freedom fighters? When those Native Americans were put into enclave and lived in a horror condition is that a war crime. When some Native Americans decided to fight the last fight is that justified even though many innocents dead. Or are those settlers that innocent to begin with.

I can't condone what Hamas did. Either I am going to judge them. What Israelis did to Palestinians especially in Gaza Strip isn't right. Sadly, this is the reality. Right or wrong doesn't matter. Good or evil doesn't matter. Might is right, Hamas understood that and Israel understood that.

FriedButter said:

Edit: Israel apparently has called up 230,000 reservists. 80,000 for active duty with 150,000 on report for duty.

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Currently 100,000 troops has been amassed for the upcoming invasion of Gaza

Not sure but it seems like they are implying the annexation of Gaza.

Israel amasses 100,000 reserve troops near Gaza​

A spokesman for the Israeli military said his country has gathered 100,000 reserve troops near Gaza for the ongoing war with Hamas.

“We have amassed around 100,000 reserve troops who are currently in southern Israel,” said Jonathan Conricus in a video posted to X.

“Our job is to make sure that at the end of this war, Hamas will no longer have any military capability to threaten Israeli civilians,” he said. “In addition to that, we are also to make sure that Hamas will not be able to govern the Gaza Strip.”
Conricus added that Israeli troops are hunting down the last Palestinian fighters who had infiltrated southern Israel.

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“In addition to that, we are also to make sure that Hamas will not be able to govern the Gaza Strip.”
Conricus

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Overbom said:

By more barbaric killings of Palestinians, Hamas' standing will further increase in Palestinians' eyes while the (I presume) treasonous PLO's authority will collapse the more it doesn't call for the people to take up arms to fight Israel

Hamas is impressively playing a good political game while using military means. That's what a proper qualified organisation does

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I especially am dumbfounded by this since Israel literally surrounds Gaza. There's nowhere to go and nowhere from which they can get supplies. If Hamas did manage to dig to Jordan it would be pretty trivial for Israel to collapse the tunnels, and that's a big if. The IDF does not need need to go fast, they have already cut off all trade including electricity and food. Hamas has no outside source of supply and no interior production capacity. They are going to run out of ammunition and begin starving within a few months.

I honestly think the leadership only expected intensified bombing in retaliation, because if any of them are in Gaza right now they're basically fucked.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Palestinians were living like caged animals. There's no future for them other than a slow purge. If they resist, at least they'll get some sympathy and room at the negotiating table. In fact, they will not be given anything for staying quiet. The only way to get anything in this life is to fiercely resist injustice and let the chips fall how they may.

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I don't doubt that, but I question what Hamas, as an organization, hopes to gain from this offensive. They are clearly risking the effective end of their existence as a military and political entity for no clear strategic reason.

Overbom said:

By more barbaric killings of Palestinians, Hamas' standing will further increase in Palestinians' eyes while the (I presume) treasonous PLO's authority will collapse the more it doesn't call for the people to take up arms to fight Israel

Hamas is impressively playing a good political game while using military means. That's what a proper qualified organisation does

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Unless this happens:

FriedButter said:

Currently 100,000 troops has been amassed for the upcoming invasion of Gaza

Not sure but it seems like they are implying the annexation of Gaza.

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Sure, such an action would likely galvanize the PLO into taking up the fight again, but Hamas would be finished.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Palestinians were living like caged animals. There's no future for them other than a slow purge. If they resist, at least they'll get some sympathy and room at the negotiating table. In fact, they will not be given anything for staying quiet. The only way to get anything in this life is to fiercely resist injustice and let the chips fall how they may.

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In essence, the mindset of Hamas and Palestinians right now can be summed up as, "We burn, you burn with us!" Sound familiar? Only difference is when a certain group of people expressed such sentiments four years ago (and were too pussy to follow up with it, instead bouncing off to the UK when shit got hot) it was described as revolutionary, resistance against tyranny. When the Gazans have been pushed to embody such a mindset, its insanity.

Witchhunter12 said:

In essence, the mindset of Hamas and Palestinians right now can be summed up as, "We burn, you burn with us!" Sound familiar? Only difference is when a certain group of people expressed such sentiments four years ago (and were too pussy to follow up with it, instead bouncing off to the UK when shit got hot) it was described as revolutionary, resistance against tyranny. When the Gazans have been pushed to embody such a mindset, its insanity.

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the mindset of entitled rioter scum living in one of the safest and richest cities in the world being supported by all the world's propaganda mouthpieces while burning and killing, is unfamiliar to me.

However, I can understand the desperation of a people born into the de facto concentration camp of a concrete jungle surrounded by barbed wire and trigger happy guards, with 40% unemployment and poverty rates, and being told by the world that they don't matter.

Boltzmann said:

I especially am dumbfounded by this since Israel literally surrounds Gaza. There's nowhere to go and nowhere from which they can get supplies. If Hamas did manage to dig to Jordan it would be pretty trivial for Israel to collapse the tunnels, and that's a big if. The IDF does not need need to go fast, they have already cut off all trade including electricity and food. Hamas has no outside source of supply and no interior production capacity. They are going to run out of ammunition and begin starving within a few months.

I honestly think the leadership only expected intensified bombing in retaliation, because if any of them are in Gaza right now they're basically fucked.

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Hundreds of thousands of Gazans starving to death and many more fleeing to the Egyptian border against the wishes of Egypt because the Israelis go gloves off will do more to advance the Palestinian cause than anything that has happened in the last 30 years.

There's not much chance of Israel achieving any sort of lasting victory that isn't a pyrrhic one. In fact, they've already lost by being forced to react to the successful attack. I doubt they can even root out Hamas from Gaza.

Last time they entered Gaza, it was only a few km to demolish tunnels.
This time they'll have to occupy the entire thing, house to house to root out Hamas.

Overbom said:

No way that Hamas didn't expect a ground invasion.

I would actually go as far to say that the whole point of this attack was to goad Israel into committing its ground forces in Gaza

If Hamas managed to plan, train for, and execute such a complex and multi-domain operation why would people then think that it also wouldn't predict the most plausible retaliation by Israel would be?

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That was my point. Ground invasion was the 'next event' I mentioned in.my post. My ? was is hamas planning something specific for this expected invasion or will they just let the chips fall where it is.

FairAndUnbiased said:

the mindset of entitled rioter scum living in one of the safest and richest cities in the world being supported by all the world's propaganda mouthpieces while burning and killing, is unfamiliar to me.

However, I can understand the desperation of a people born into the de facto concentration camp of a concrete jungle surrounded by barbed wire and trigger happy guards, with 40% unemployment and poverty rates, and being told by the world that they don't matter.

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The idea that young students in one of the richest and most developed cities in the world could do "lam chau" is laughable. The idea that desperate, unemployed, effectively imprisoned young men turning to "lam chau" as a final statement before entering their Heaven is terrifying.

On an unrelated tangent, this is why Xinjiang's pacification operation worked so well. When Uyghurs are given houses and jobs, the chance they burn everything down drastically decreased.

lube said:

Hundreds of thousands of Gazans starving to death and many more fleeing to the Egyptian border against the wishes of Egypt because the Israelis go gloves off will do more to advance the Palestinian cause than anything that has happened in the last 30 years.

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So Gaza being physically destroyed and its entire population being either killed or forced to permanently flee, followed by Israeli annexation, is good for the Palestinian cause?

Do you understand how deranged this sounds?