Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

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azn_cyniq

Junior Member
Registered Member
tankphobia said:
You shouldn't be surprised at the content Hamas are putting out, in a region engulfed by conflict continuously, the people are extremely desensitised to such content and so what they consider normal could be repulsive to us. They are not looking for our support, but the support of other Arab nations.

We're simply judging them by western lenses while in reality it's not any different than the stuff that any other middle eastern military puts out.

In regards to the Israeli destruction of the residential tower, they did perform knocking before hand via low yield explosive on the roof top a few minutes before the actual strike.
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Do you know where I can find the content that Hamas is putting out?
 
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lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
Late to the game but im actually surprised that IDF/Mossad etc. got caught with their pants down like that. With both highly capable HUMINT and SIGINT in place, something of this magnitude should not have happened.
This was a very large scale and highly sophisticated operation carried out by Hamas... not some lone wolf type with a bomb vest or a couple of folks seeking revenge.
Many someones in Israeli intelligence dropped the ball on this one. Also this proves HAMAS is far more sophisticated and capable that Israel had thought.
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You got it backwards.
You're surprised because everyone's been told IDF/Mossad/Shin Bet/Aman are these highly capable organizations that brings terror and fear to Israel's enemies. What if they're actually incompetent all the way through and all their outside successes are covering up their shortcomings?

Literally no other way to explain the sheer level of incompetence to miss hundreds to thousands of Hamas fighters preparing for this strike from inside a heavily surveilled open air prison.
 
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no_name

Colonel
daifo said:
I think Hamas has somewhat lost the propaganda war on this, at least in the west. Maybe it is a "cultural" thing of which they like to see in that side of the world or just brainless... but filming and propagating your group capturing/killing/parading dead "young attractive" females and random frighten innocent looking people is pretty dumb. War and death is horrible obviously, but these types of videos is stuff you try to censor out your side committing. Israel shows themselves blowing up a residential tower but they hide the fact that many innocent may have died.
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On the other hand Israel is also losing it's image of invincibility. I think decades of trying to carve up and gobble Palestinian lands means that the two groups are very intermixed and Israel is force to shift it's force focus/weight from conventional to a counterinsurgency warfare, like how US forces ended up in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What was originally supposed to be done by intelligence agency backed up by elite special force teams the burden is now shifted onto their conventional forces.

Yes, Israel thrashed Arab armies repeatedly in the past, but that has been what, 40 years? And Arab armies are hardly benchmark standards. but the way Hezbollah and Hamas is hitting above their weight with the relatively 'simple' equipment they have makes it hard for Israel military to bring out it's full abilities and be cost efficient - US needs to bleed cash/resources for Israel.

Palestinians sees no future. They see themselves wiped out as a people. Might as well take the young men they don't lack now, and gamble with it.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
no_name said:
On the other hand Israel is also losing it's image of invincibility. I think decades of trying to carve up and gobble Palestinian lands means that the two groups are very intermixed and Israel is force to shift it's force focus/weight from conventional to a counterinsurgency warfare, like how US forces ended up in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What was originally supposed to be done by intelligence agency backed up by elite special force teams the burden is now shifted onto their conventional forces.

Yes, Israel thrashed Arab armies repeatedly in the past, but that has been what, 40 years? And Arab armies are hardly benchmark standards. but the way Hezbollah and Hamas is hitting above their weight with the relatively 'simple' equipment they have makes it hard for Israel military to bring out it's full abilities and be cost efficient - US needs to bleed cash/resources for Israel.

Palestinians sees no future. They see themselves wiped out as a people. Might as well take the young men they don't lack now, and gamble with it.
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I think Israel losing image of invincibility is very important for the future of Palestinians getting more support from other Arab countries. Most Neighbouring Arab countries and other muslims all over the world have not become less anti-Israel or Ok with Israel controlling Al Aqsa Mosque. They sort of lost hope since they thought Israel is too powerful or too protected by the west.

So, if it can be shown that Israel is no longer so powerful and Muslim armies no longer so hapless, then they will start to have hope again. This hope can be used by more nationalistic leaders to rally the people which can then in turn bring change in policy or leadership in the Arab countries. Power brings more confidence, which can bring emotions to surface that were kept dormant.

So, this attack could have a huge galvanizing effect on the Muslims in the region who could see this as an opportunity to do what they thought was impossible, which is recapture Al Aqsa Mosque. Maybe not now, but over the long term they could see opportunities to weaken Israel even further with more frequent attacks.
 
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Deleted member 23272

Guest
daifo said:
I think Hamas has somewhat lost the propaganda war on this, at least in the west. Maybe it is a "cultural" thing of which they like to see in that side of the world or just brainless... but filming and propagating your group capturing/killing/parading dead "young attractive" females and random frighten innocent looking people is pretty dumb. War and death is horrible obviously, but these types of videos is stuff you try to censor out your side committing. Israel shows themselves blowing up a residential tower but they hide the fact that many innocent may have died.
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Even when Gazans were at their lowest what has always been the results of their propaganda victories? A few US congressmen expressing condemnation and Western peaceniks putting up #nowar before going back to the status quo and the next news story takes up the airwaves?

Ukraine has given the world a plethora of examples on how to fight a modern war. China and America have taken notes on how to fight a high intensity kinetic war involving peer powers, likewise those relying on asymetric capabilities like Hamas have done so as well and figured this is the right time to strike. Analyze the motivations of their leaders all you want, Hamas wouldn't be a thing if it didn't have legions of people willing to throw their lives for the cause. And whatever the faults of Hamas, they have no shortage of that because that's just what happens when an entire population is literally given no choice other than to fight regardless of whatever public opinion the West holds of their plight.
 
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fatzergling

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is a nonzero chance of this conflict spiraling out of control much like the Marco Polo Bridge Incident turned from an isolated incident to a war engulfing all of China. It really depends whether or not Israel takes the bait and escalates the conflict. While Israel can easily force a return to the status quo, the provocations might be enough for such an escalation. The government stating their intention to raze Gaza doesn't help either.
 
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
fatzergling said:
There is a nonzero chance of this conflict spiraling out of control much like the Marco Polo Bridge Incident turned from an isolated incident to a war engulfing all of China. It really depends whether or not Israel takes the bait and escalates the conflict. While Israel can easily force a return to the status quo, the provocations might be enough for such an escalation. The government stating their intention to raze Gaza doesn't help either.
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The only way for Netanyahu to save face, is to emerge victorious.

If he wants to look victorious, he will need to spill a lot of blood. Which means this war has great potential to involve more and more factions. I would not be surprised to see Hezbollah attack regardless of whether IDF enters Gaza or not.
 
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