Israel attacks Gaza Strip

Yea crazy at first I kind of thought the reports that they had anti tank missiles was the media getting confused with RPG-7. However after some research and the Discription of the weapons system it appears they are using some sort of wire guided missile. As reports have stated that saggers have been interdicted by Israeli naval forces I am assuming that some got through. I also thought I saw some sort of larger tube enclosed type of system AT-4 AT-5 or even Kornet or milan type. I saw this on CNN last night. so who knows. I also read a report of 2 two man anti tank missile teams getting killed last night on one of the Israeli wire services. Some of the services are seperating RPG from anti tank Missile which is leading me to believe that some sort of guided anti tank systems is being used in Gaza by Hammas. here is one report from the Jpost

*****An anti-tank missile was fired at a tank in at the Kerem Shalom crossing, injuring a number of Israeli soldiers inside.

Four of the gunmen who carried out the attack were killed, and a fifth was under pursuit.

The military wing of Hamas took responsibility for the attack.****JPOST



Also the Tempo of the Israeli operation seems to have gone into a hold mode as if to figure out just what and how much they are up against.....cheers ute.

A Kornet would have ripped through the Merkava and completely destroyed the tank (it can pierce through three feet of reactive armor). It could have probably been a Milan though since there are tens of thousands of them lying around in over a dozen different countries. Yeah, maybe the Israelis are thinking twice...

Don't Israeli tanks have that Trophy system yet? Maybe they can see how useful that can be in this situation.

During the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom, US troops encountered an unanticipated, and formidable, weapon in the Iraqi arsenal -- Russian-built Kornet antitank missiles. Iraqi soldiers used the wire-guided missile system against American tanks, but the US military previously did not know they possessed. It emerged as the Iraqis' most effective direct-fire weapon against U.S. armor in the desert of southern Iraq. Iraqi commandos traveling in three-man teams dressed in black civilian robes and riding in Nissan pickup trucks moved against the flanks of columns of armor from the US Army's 3rd Infantry Division and launched broadside attacks from several kilometers away using the system. Those attacks had disabled at least two Abrams tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war. US military intelligence officials were extremely interested in capturing one of the missiles intact. They also instructed American soldiers who destroy one of the Kornet launchers to save the remains of the system for close inspection.

After reading this article during the war I think the Hammas has a fair chance of having one given their relationship with syria. It could be smuggled in with little problem. I am not sure a Kornet would kill a merkava with a front shot as they could not defeat the abrams with a frontal hit. However they could kill the abrams with non-ballistic skirt side shot.

To answer your question crazy, about Trophy YES the merkava MK4 may be equiped with the system. in my opinion the Merkava 4 is the best tank on the planet.

The Merkava 4 probably is the best tank in the world, but only in the sense of pure capability. It is both lethal and difficult to kill, but it also is very specialized, really heavy, eats up a lot of fuel, etc. It is the best tank in the world in the sense that the Tiger was the best tank in its time, you see what I'm saying? As for all around capability I would pick the Abrams or the Challenger.

I'm not sure that Hamas would use ATMs (anti-tank missles, not automatic teller machines) correctly even if they had them. Besides, the Palestinans have a whole culture of martyrdom that sort of makes defeat a noble thing, so victory is psychalogicaly hard to achive.

BTW, Israel just rejected a truce offer, saying there will be no truce until that soldier is released. If Hamas wants a truce to regroup, it shoulkd threaten the soldiers life and say if Israel does not halt offensive operations the soldier dies. That's what I would do, to turn the tables on Israel and force it to do what I want. Doing that puts Israel in a no-win situation. If it agrees, it gives Hamas what it wants without gaining anything in return. If it disagrees, it loses the soldier and fails in its mission.

Finn I dont think Isael should underestimate its enemy even if it is Hamas. REMEMBER this is the same Hamas who dug a tunnel deep under Israeli lines then destroyed a Merkava main battle tank with 20 hits from RPG and grenades into the turret thus killing the crew and taking 1 captured. this is a fact read the Israeli military statement.

GAZA (Reuters) - The Israeli army said one of its positions near the Gaza Strip was hit by an anti-tank missile early on Sunday in an attack claimed by Palestinian militants, including the Hamas armed wing.

The Hamas armed wing said it helped carry out the raid, which they said involved bombs and automatic weapons fire on the post, near the Kerem Shalom border crossing.

They claimed there were Israeli casualties. The army said it could only confirm the attack.

**"Apparently an anti-tank missile hit the post," an army spokeswoman said**

Israel’s Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center has an outstanding detailed description of the attack by Palestinians at Karem Shalom that resulted in two Israeli soldiers killed and one, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, kidnapped and spirited into the Rafah area of Gaza.

It was zero-dark-thirty on Sunday morning when Popular Resistance Committees and Hamas terrorists emerged from a tunnel that originated about 500 meters inside Gaza and extended 300 meters into the Israeli side of the security fence, behind the security tower, tank and armored personnel carrier targets of the attack. The tunnel was nearly a full kilometer in length and a major undertaking requiring planning, coordination and time. This is an important aspect that will come into play again.

From the tunnel, the group of PRC and Hamas terrorists emerged, though this time attacking military targets rather than civilians. They split into three teams. One team used a shoulder-launched anti-tank missile that hit the IDF tank, killing two and injuring one. The other two teams targeted the armored personnel carrier (which was empty) and security tower, injuring the two men manning the tower. With Gilad Shalit in hand, the Hamas & PRC terrorists blew a hole in the security wall and escaped back into Gaza.

That the PRC/Hamas (Izzadin el-Kassam)/Saladdin Brigade/Army of Islam collaborators claimed that the attack was in response to the recent Israeli assassinations of PRC leader Jamal Abu Samhadana and fellow PRC terrorist Abu Yusuf Qoqa, was always curious. Tunnels do not appear in short order response, especially those nearly a full kilometer in length. The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center hits this point squarely.

The PRC, an organization directed by Hamas, announced that the attack had been carried out by joint PRC-Hamas-Army of Islam forces in retaliation for the deaths of two senior PRC terrorists, Jamal Abu Samhadana and Abu Yusuf Qoqa, and for the deaths of the members of the Ghalia family. (In our assessment, it would take a number of months to dig a tunnel that long and therefore it is not plausible that the attack was related to the events which took place during the past month.) [Emphasis added.]

Israel killed Samhadana only two weeks before the PRC tunnel attack, and had noted at that time the high amount of weapons smuggling going on in the Palestinian terrorist arms build-up. The head of Israel’s Shin Bet intelligence service noted that “11 tons of explosives, more than 3 million bullets, 430 rocket propelled grenades and 10 shoulder-fired missiles” were known to have made their way into Gaza in early June. The tank damaged in the attack was a Merkava, with one of the finest armor protection in the world. Clearly, the missile fired at it was newer technology smuggled into Gaza. Recall the Russian-built AT14 Kornet shoulder fired anti-tank missiles that penetrated the M1-A2 Abrams’ armor in Iraq

utelore said:

Israel killed Samhadana only two weeks before the PRC tunnel attack, and had noted at that time the high amount of weapons smuggling going on in the Palestinian terrorist arms build-up. The head of Israel’s Shin Bet intelligence service noted that “11 tons of explosives, more than 3 million bullets, 430 rocket propelled grenades and 10 shoulder-fired missiles” were known to have made their way into Gaza in early June. The tank damaged in the attack was a Merkava, with one of the finest armor protection in the world. Clearly, the missile fired at it was newer technology smuggled into Gaza. Recall the Russian-built AT14 Kornet shoulder fired anti-tank missiles that penetrated the M1-A2 Abrams’ armor in Iraq

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Wait. Is that what the Israelis intercepted? If not, how do they know? If that is true and that is what the Palestinians have stockpiled just in early June, then attacking Gaza will be more difficult than I thought.

Finn McCool said:

Wait. Is that what the Israelis intercepted? If not, how do they know? If that is true and that is what the Palestinians have stockpiled just in early June, then attacking Gaza will be more difficult than I thought.

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Maybe the Palestinians are playing it smart this time. They haven't saturated Israeli forces with anti-tank missile fire and they may be waiting till the Israeli forces enter the crammed refugee camps where the armored veichles will have little place to move.

Lets not lose our heads now fellas. Yes, it is reasonable to assume that Hamas has some sort of anti tank weapon systems. I think it is way to soon to say that it will somehow make it a major issue for the Israeli military. I think it will cause concern on a unit level but will have little impact on the overall military objectives. I think Israel is taking a very small step back and are saying hmmmmm this is interesting. I think they are breaking out the contingency book for operations in Damascus and will then transplant that plan for operations in Gaza to deal with this anti tank threat.

Wow...how is the Israeli government going to respond to this ?

Hezbollah 'seize Israel soldiers'
BBC breaking news graphic
The Lebanese Shia militant group Hezbollah says it has captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the Lebanese-Israeli border.

The announcement was made on the group's television channel, al-Manar.

Rockets and mortar rounds were fired from Lebanon towards the Israeli town of Shlomi and at Israeli outposts in the disputed Shebaa farms area.

The shelling was accompanied by automatic gunfire and at least four people were wounded, reports say.

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