Israel attacks Gaza Strip

This lop sided "warfare" should be no surprise. The U.S. gives Israel about $ 3 billion in aide every year and most of that is spent on military armaments. The Palestinians must get their arms by smuggling through the border. The Israelis sealed the Gaza borders, not allowing any arms to get through.
This is not really "warfare", it's more like policing actions.

Well it seems like the real test will come when they enter the towns and get into urban combat. Last time that happened, Israel lost 23 soldiers and killed 50 militants back in 2002. Only a 2-1 kill ratio. That's surprisng. But Israel has probably learned more, especially from what the US did in Fallujah.

DPRKUnderground said:

Well it seems like the real test will come when they enter the towns and get into urban combat. Last time that happened, Israel lost 23 soldiers and killed 50 militants back in 2002. Only a 2-1 kill ratio. That's surprisng. But Israel has probably learned more, especially from what the US did in Fallujah.

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In Fallujah, the US used large amounts of white phosperous PLUS all the smart militants left the city to live and fight another day. I doubt the Israelis are going to use white phosperous plus the Palestinian militants aren't leaving the cities any time soon. Once the Israelis enter the urban areas where tanks can't fit through, then it will be heavy urban combat with casualties on both sides.

I don't think that Israel really cares about creating hatred in the Palestinian population. They've already come to the conclusion that the Palestinians will hate them no matter what, so all Israel cares about is protecting themselves. Personally I think they are correct. The Palestinians care not a partner for negotiation, and they will not be in the foreseeable future. That is why the Israelis are retaliating so massively for the capturing of this soldier. They want to make Hamas understand that attacks are not going to accomplish anything but more Palestinian deaths. I think that Hamas was startled by the initial ferocity of the Israeli response, but they are prepared to escalate. Of course, if Israel chooses to bring all the force it has to bear, beginning targeted killings again, making regular incursions to attack bomb factories and other targets, etc, then I think that Hamas will be forced to back down, at least for a while. I think that Hamas wants it both ways:it wants to force the Israelis to abandon their unilateral path of wall-building, assasinations and settlement abandonment and force them to negotiate. But Hamas also wants to drive Israel back into the sea and secure the right of return for the Palestinian refuges. Israel is simply trying to continue on its unilateral path, which Israel, and I, believe is the best chance for peace.

As for the more military side of things, if I were the Palestinians, I would try to hide troops in buildings, allow Israeli troops to pass, then attack simaltaneously from the rear and the front, as well as trying to construct attacks like the urban fight scene from Saving Private Ryan, using IEDs and mines to cause chaos and casualties and then attacking from multiple directions and targeting Israeli infantry. Of course, the fact that the Israelis could simply wipe out my positions with a few blasts of cannon fire from an Apache causes soome problems, but there have got to be places in Gaza's dense enviroment where you can make an effective stand. But the main reason that this is unrealistic is that it requires effective C&C, which the Palestinians lack. Also, the Palestinians have a "martyr mentality" which also hampers them.

Utelore-I read thunder run, and you're right. But that was on a highway and then in Saddam's open palace area. The tanks had fields of fire. In a lot of areas of Gaza it would be different. But still, I think that battle/s proved that tanks can survive and are indeed very useful in an urban enviroment.

If I was in command of the Pal I would rat hole my forces or cells by tunneling from basement to basement of interconnecting homes. I would continue to launch long range rockets into Israel proper with hopes this would force Israel deeper into Gaza thus making Israel create supply lines to resupply. I would focus very brief but violent hit and run attacks while taking more hostages and bringing them also deeper into central gaza city. I would employ some very violent decapitations in front of video to draw more Israeli troops into gaza which would give me more targets. I would not attack Merkava tank units which would be crazy but go after softer stuff.

I would have tunnels dug under main and some side roadways and then plant large explosive charges in those areas BUT I would not detonate these devices until the Heavy forces have deployed and those roadways would start being used as resupply. I would employ the use of chlorine gas bombs to force Israeli forces into MOP suits to make warfare that much more uncomfortable. I would try and send out a takeover unit too try and take a Israeli soft target with lots of people to cause utter terror of the Israeli populace.

Basically I would employ many of the same strategies Sunni and Chechen insurgents are using in Iraq and Russia. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I DISLIKE THESE KIND OF TACTICS however I put myself in the place of a local Gaza commander facing an unstoppable force in Israel....what other options do I have left....

If I were Israel I would start bombing EVERTHING in the north of gaza slowly working my way down to the south and would order all humans into Egypt . what other options do I have left. ......cheers ute.

The war for Palestine must be won in the Arab capitals. Until the Arabs
have genuinely democraticly elected leaders in their countries their fate
is going to be a miserable one.

Of course how long the world economy can tolerate such a situation
in the middle east in order to keep israel secure is another matter.

Remember why apartheid fell in South Africa ?

utelore said:

If I was in command of the Pal I would rat hole my forces or cells by tunneling from basement to basement of interconnecting homes. I would continue to launch long range rockets into Israel proper with hopes this would force Israel deeper into Gaza thus making Israel create supply lines to resupply. I would focus very brief but violent hit and run attacks while taking more hostages and bringing them also deeper into central gaza city. I would employ some very violent decapitations in front of video to draw more Israeli troops into gaza which would give me more targets. I would not attack Merkava tank units which would be crazy but go after softer stuff.

I would have tunnels dug under main and some side roadways and then plant large explosive charges in those areas BUT I would not detonate these devices until the Heavy forces have deployed and those roadways would start being used as resupply. I would employ the use of chlorine gas bombs to force Israeli forces into MOP suits to make warfare that much more uncomfortable. I would try and send out a takeover unit too try and take a Israeli soft target with lots of people to cause utter terror of the Israeli populace.

Basically I would employ many of the same strategies Sunni and Chechen insurgents are using in Iraq and Russia. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I DISLIKE THESE KIND OF TACTICS however I put myself in the place of a local Gaza commander facing an unstoppable force in Israel....what other options do I have left....

If I were Israel I would start bombing EVERTHING in the north of gaza slowly working my way down to the south and would order all humans into Egypt . what other options do I have left. ......cheers ute.

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First of all, where would Palestine get chlorine gas? But otherwise it seems reasonable. Palestinian guerillas must be where Israeli armor can't go. Which mean small street alleys. RPGs must be used against lighter vehicles, not the impenetrable Merkavas. That would bring down morale because of high casualties. I was watching this program on the History Channel about the US offensive in Anbar. The insurgents would fall back from one fortified position to another. It didn't do what it was supposed to do (Stop US forces) but it was pretty effective.

Chlorine gas is not hard to make at all. I am not going to post how to make it but if you do some searching you will find it. I DO NOT RECOMMEND MAKING ANYTHING THAT COULD HURT YOU OR A THIRD PERSON. Second in Al An-bar the insurgents use a hit and most of the unit runs leaving behind a smaller force to wait for rear echelon troops to move into the area. they then attack again or wait even longer like about 2 to 5 days for attack on Iraq army or Rear echelon American units. They are really patient bastards from what I have been told by my buddies.

However these tactics have become kind of ineffective because of the massive cordon and search tactics the U.S is using "mainly marines" Army does not like to search. Just run "thunder runs" this however tends to overlook the stay behind forces. Army is now starting to use Special forces after these "thunder runs" for clean up. I can also say the 155mm paladin is back in service firing more "Willy Pete" any way I am gettingff

I am real interested in finding out what kind of "anti tank missile" Hammas is using. Anyone can answer this? is it Saggers?

A big problem for the Palestinians is the fact that (I think) they have a bit of a lack of explosives. Gaza has been cordoned off by the Israelis for a long time and Hamas does not have access to explosives like the Iraqi insurgents.

As I said before, I would try to do essentially the same thing that ute said, with the exception that I would attack, feign retreat and try to get the Israelis to send infantry/a smaller force into a denser ambush-friendly area. The Palestinians will have to make use of tunnels due to the fact that the Israelis can find and hit their troop concnentrations with the old UAV/helicopter combination that works so well in Iraq. I would also use that soldier as a weapon. If the Israelis were really making a lot of headway and I needed time to regroup, I would quickly make a video threatening him and any other captured Israelis with death in a very short period of time unless the Israeli offensive is halted. Finally, I would hit settlements in the West Bank to try to persuade the Israeli public that attacks into Palestinian territory will only result in more of the type of action they try to prevent. Perhaps Israeli artillery batteries and command centers could be targeted with rockets.

utelore said:

I am real interested in finding out what kind of "anti tank missile" Hammas is using. Anyone can answer this? is it Saggers?

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Hold up a minute buddy. The Palestinians have anti-tank missiles? Where did you hear this? I thought their arsenal is limited to RPG's for anti-veichle penetration. Above that, I think the RPG is probably more effective than the Sagger. The Sagger has a penetration of 200 mm only. It does have a longer range though than the RPG and can be guided, but it's a first generation anti-tank missile made in the 60's. It's not going to give the Palestinians much of a punch at all. Now if the Palestinians had HJ-8/Baktar Shikan missiles with kinetic energy rounds, then that would be a good fight to see...