Israel attacks Gaza Strip

maglomanic · Aug 3, 2006

Just want to add one thing here. If IDF moves in with full force they would indeed be able to get as far as they want. There is noway Hizb can stop that. What will follow however is something that IDF won't be able to stop either. That is, Hizb attacks on their terms. We know IDF occupied villages and then after all those tall claims of total control they still suffered heaviest casualties in single day. It's gonna be Bint-Jabel all over the occupation zone if IDF moves in.

If anyone thinks they are not doing it out of their own will, then i think thats wrong. The problem is they would love to create the buffer zone. Govt has said it time and again. They seem to be losing credibility by not doing that. So IDF wants to do it by all means it's just that as of now they think it is a very complicated mission that can back fire.

utelore · Aug 3, 2006

not sure crazy, I know of a couple Abrams getting hit by the Kornet in OIF but the crews all survived. I would think the crew of the Merkava would also survive because the protection of the Merkava is on the same level as an Abrams. In tank circles the destruction and crew kills by a ATGW is huge when the Merkava has been defeated by such weapon. granted we are not 100% certain it was a Merkava. but based on the 4 man crew and reports of a "tank" I would lean towards a Merkava. We also know the Hezbollah have American made TOW which are very powerful systems. I have even seen TOW hits from a Bradley on the rear turret area of a Abrams but the crew still survived.

SampanViking · Aug 3, 2006

Isthvan says

Well while Hezbollah spokesman said that they deliberately lured IDF in ambush in Baalbek it is quite obvious that Israelis caught them whit there pants down… I mean they managed to conduct raid 80 miles deep in Lebanese territory without any loses in equipment or personnel.

I wonder if the Isrealis went in via Syria - guessing that Syria would not want to risk a shooting war by downing the helicopters.

Gollevainen · Aug 3, 2006

Just want to add one thing here. If IDF moves in with full force they would indeed be able to get as far as they want. There is noway Hizb can stop that. What will follow however is something that IDF won't be able to stop either. That is, Hizb attacks on their terms. We know IDF occupied villages and then after all those tall claims of total control they still suffered heaviest casualties in single day. It's gonna be Bint-Jabel all over the occupation zone if IDF moves in.

The thing is that in areadefence doctrine, eg. Gurellia warfare the defender doesen't try to deny the enemy penetration to their soil. So when the news boast about Israeli succes when they enter Lebanon soil, they are wawing empty banners. Israel moving to leabon side is the same if they would change positions in the Israel side. There is no trench nor clear lines.

Also all Hezbollah needs to do is survive and it can claim the victory. Israel has set to it's goal to destroy the Hezbollah completely and that is inpossiple. They may and propaply will give them a good beat up, but noway near they can destroy it or even make it unable to strike back. They haven't succeed in violent suppression of the palestinian resistance so in my obinion they wont have any change with hezbollah. This war, as all wars are useless and only fruit of it is yeat another generation of hate and young mens having solid reason to continue the violence in both sides. Terrorism or freedom fighters (what ever you want to call them) cannot be won by violence, but by winning the hearts of the supporters, and there you need carrots, not sticks.

Deleted member 675 · Aug 3, 2006

Gollevainen said:
Also all Hezbollah needs to do is survive and it can claim the victory.

In the short-term that is true. But at the same time Israel would also accept a ceasefire if the peacekeeping force was ready to be deployed, regardless of whether Hezbollah was destroyed or not.

For Hezbollah to win long-term, it needs to ensure that a peacekeeping force is not deployed with a mission to disarm it. How they can make that happen I'm not sure. So unless this turns into a regional war with more countries getting sucked in, they're in a spot of bother in the long-run.

isthvan · Aug 3, 2006

SampanViking said:
I wonder if the Isrealis went in via Syria - guessing that Syria would not want to risk a shooting war by downing the helicopters.

Well I wouldn’t count on it... While Syria doesn’t wont to be involved in open warfare against Israel they wouldn’t tolerate Israeli aircrafts/helicopter in Syrian airspace...

coolieno99 · Aug 3, 2006

If the Iraqis used the Kornet, then Hezbollah guerillas probably have access to them as well. Probably provided by Syria.

The AT-14 Kornet(wire guided) has a range of 3.5 kilometers. The Kornet, which has a claimed ability to penetrate 1100 to 1200 millimeters of steel armor protected by explosive armor, provided a formidable antitank weapon system ...

During the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom, US troops encountered an unanticipated, and formidable, weapon in the Iraqi arsenal -- Russian-built Kornet antitank missiles. Iraqi soldiers used the wire-guided missile system against American tanks, but the US military previously did not know they possessed. It emerged as the Iraqis' most effective direct-fire weapon against U.S. armor in the desert of southern Iraq. Iraqi commandos traveling in three-man teams dressed in black civilian robes and riding in Nissan pickup trucks moved against the flanks of columns of armor from the US Army's 3rd Infantry Division and launched broadside attacks from several kilometers away using the system. Those attacks had disabled at least two Abrahms tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war. US military intelligence officials were extremely interested in capturing one of the missiles intact. They also instructed American soldiers who destroy one of the Kornet launchers to save the remains of the system for close inspection.

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Roger604 · Aug 3, 2006

isthvan said:
Well I wouldn’t count on it... While Syria doesn’t wont to be involved in open warfare against Israel they wouldn’t tolerate Israeli aircrafts/helicopter in Syrian airspace...

That was my first reaction too. But then I recalled that Israeli overflight of the Assad's residence about two months ago. At the time it seems to me like an off the wall aggressive move. (These later events proved that increased aggression was no accident.)

Syria could do nothing about the overflight then. Can it do something now? I know they are on high alert now, but dare they take a shot at IAF?

How would Iran react in this scenario? We have been hearing about N. Korean ties to Iran lately. Is this true? Would we see N. Korean gear in the hands of Iran? Interesting times indeed.

crazyinsane105 · Aug 3, 2006

Roger604 said:
That was my first reaction too. But then I recalled that Israeli overflight of the Assad's residence about two months ago. At the time it seems to me like an off the wall aggressive move. (These later events proved that increased aggression was no accident.)

Syria could do nothing about the overflight then. Can it do something now? I know they are on high alert now, but dare they take a shot at IAF?

Better yet, does Syria even have the capability to shoot down IDF jets? I mean, the most sophisticated SAM they have is the truck launched SA-18 and that itself is only useful against low flying aircraft.

coolieno99 · Aug 4, 2006

Gollevainen said:
The thing is that in areadefence doctrine, eg. Gurellia warfare the defender doesen't try to deny the enemy penetration to their soil. So when the news boast about Israeli succes when they enter Lebanon soil, they are wawing empty banners. .....

You're quite correct. If anything the guerillas would preferred the aggressors strung out in advancing column. It's much easier to stage an attack on the flank and rear of the aggressors. As far as occupation of hilltops and villages, the aggressors would become "sitting ducks" for guerilla artillary, mortar, and sniper fires. During the Vietnam War, it's not unusual for U.S. units to overrun a hilltop, and then subsequently relinquished it under heavy artillery and mortar fires from the guerillas.

Israel attacks Gaza Strip

maglomanic

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utelore

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SampanViking

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Gollevainen

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isthvan

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coolieno99

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Roger604

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crazyinsane105

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coolieno99

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