Israel attacks Gaza Strip

utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Hi coolieno, based on my own combat situations Israel would love to have the Hezbollah running around in the hills in the cool night air. Israeli thermal sites would pick them up better than at daytime. No....the Hezbollah is hunkered down inside of rat-holed basement's of these towns and villages. They also tend to attack during the day as they can see better and the thermal sites of Israel are just a little less effective....cheers ute
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Coolieno-

You're right. However, you cannot stop an offensive for fear of a counterattack. The Israelis are going to have to face Hezbollah in Lebanon, on the ground of they wish to destroy or even heavily damage Hezbollah. The Israelis know how to fight at night. If that is necessary it can be done.

Zergling-
I agree. Israel seems to be acting in half measures. If they want to go Genghis Khan style, not killing civillians on purpose but not really caring if they get in the way and punish the entire Lebanese population, bomb what they need to bomb and invade the country without any regard for public opinion, then they can do it. If they want to mount a more limited offensive with high concern for civillian casualties and Lebanese public opinion, than they can do that. Either could work. But doing half of both will fail. That is what they are doing right now.
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
utelore said:
Hi coolieno, based on my own combat situations Israel would love to have the Hezbollah running around in the hills in the cool night air. Israeli thermal sites would pick them up better than at daytime. No....the Hezbollah is hunkered down inside of rat-holed basement's of these towns and villages. They also tend to attack during the day as they can see better and the thermal sites of Israel are just a little less effective....cheers ute

If i am not wrong Hezbollah also have night googles and other equipment that they have used. They have planned everything according to the terrain and israeli capabilities. You are taking very simplistic view of things. If Israelis had that option they would have done it by now. And please don't bring that 'Olmert is a civillian showing restraint' argument. The same military might was there in Lebanon for past 20 years and Israel had military hardline stalwarts as it's prime minister. I refuse to beleive Israel didnt do anything to show 'restraint'. Even thsi very moment if Israel sees an oppurtunity it will grab it with both hands. So far Israel has shown complete lack of planning and the way they have changed their goals with an unconditional veto at UNSC and US sending tons of munition, just shows alot of confusion. Yes the only success has been the sending the civillian infrastructure 20 years back . Israel always does that best .
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Finn McCool said:
I agree. Israel seems to be acting in half measures. If they want to go Genghis Khan style, not killing civillians on purpose but not really caring if they get in the way and punish the entire Lebanese population, bomb what they need to bomb and invade the country without any regard for public opinion, then they can do it. If they want to mount a more limited offensive with high concern for civillian casualties and Lebanese public opinion, than they can do that. Either could work. But doing half of both will fail. That is what they are doing right now.

I guess thats exactly what Israel has been doing so far. When Israeli Cheif of Army Staff said we will send their country back 20 years he was talking about not just hezbollah. Please refrain from absurd claims that you cannot back up with examples of actions.Noone in the whole entire world except for USA is buying that argument right now. Not even China which protested it's observer's death.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
This is the Last warning! If the discussion remains having political aspects, then it will be closed. So it's your (all the members participating) call...
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Gollevainen said:
This is the Last warning! If the discussion remains having political aspects, then it will be closed. So it's your (all the members participating) call...

Golly,
I think it will be the right move to close this thread. Some of us just cannot resist posting stuff straight out of CNN and FOX Channels.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The issue isen't the stuff from some spesific news channel, the issue is that this topic in general raises strong emotions and feelings. Even I have very strong wievs about the whole situation and if I were to express them in here, it would piss many people off. And i've noticed similar thing in others too. Once a normal poster with no past history of trouple making can suddenly come a mouthfoaminf flamist to arguing on behalf what he believes its right in this situation.

We are military forum and god knows we have enough trouple to sometimes keep the actual military discussion in line. Thats why we don't allow politically oriented discussion other than in very rare occasions. This middle-east conflict is one of the worse topics from mods point of wiev and thus under strickt observation.

I wont close this thread...yet...but i will if you all wont just cool down and remember that rules aplyes to all
 

coolieno99

Junior Member
utelore said:
Hi coolieno, based on my own combat situations Israel would love to have the Hezbollah running around in the hills in the cool night air. Israeli thermal sites would pick them up better than at daytime.

The ambush in Bint Jbeil staged by Hezbollah occurred at 5 AM in the morning. 8 Israelis were killed. 5 AM in the morning is still considered dark.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
So essentially what we have is a group of guys who strictly seperate their
military from political wings, are incredibly secretive, are supplied with high
tech gear, have mass public support, study their opponents very carefully...

it would be surprising if they weren't successful !
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
To echo Gollevainen...

Keeping your head cool and posts related to only military matters when possible is one of the most strongly enforced rules in SDF, keeping discussions fueled by logic and rationalism, as opposed to emotions and nationalism. From what I can tell, there isn't necessarily a problem with the topic itself, it's the manner in which we discuss it. If we can discuss politics with only facts and logical conclusions, then okay. (I hope)

I've ranted enough on why I like this place, here's what the current Middle East situation looks to me.

Here's my take on why Hezbollah (or any of the current insurgencies) can't lose this fight against the "West". Let me make an example by examining how the former Soviet Union fought its war in Afghanistan...

At first Soviet operations were directed mostly against the Mudjahidin(sp?), until they figured out that there was wide popular support for the resistance movement, and switched to an arguably terrorist strategy of genocide and destruction. Bombers hit entire villages, seeking to destroy the infrastructure supporting the resistance fighters. "Free-fire" zones were established along main roads and the areas surrounding them, anything within the zone was pretty much wiped off the face of the earth. Plus, crop fields, irrigation systems, food storage warehouses, and other facilities vital to Afghan atriculture were destroyed in an attempt to drive people off of the land.

A large portion of the population was forced to flee to neighboring Pakistan, Iran, or the cities... what with famine, enormous slaughter of livestock, etc. You can find similiar descriptions of Soviet ops in Afghanistan pretty easily on the net. After examining this, several points are obvious :

1) There was a time when the US was horrified by Soviet tactics and brutality in Afghanistan.

2) The Soviet campaign didn't work.

3) The campaign pretty much created Al-Qaeda and the international jihadist movement. While the US also shares a portion of the blame for founding Al-Qaeda and arming the Mudjahidin, that's not the whole story. Certainly, we helped it along, but what really set things off were the extremely brutal Soviet military operations rallying the jihadist community.

Similiar conclusions will probably be drawn after this conflict between Israel and God knows who else when this is over.

What's the alternative to all this brute force? Well from a non-military perspective, it revolves around true and open dialogue, plus security pacts, true support for grassroots democracy, practicing what we (the US) teach, trade agreements...

Obviously, military responses will still be necessary, but they should be short, accurate, and hopefully piss off the surrounding citizenry as little as possible. It's hard and will probably take along time and self restraint, but it's better than setting the infrastructure of surrounding areas back a decade every few years with conventional war.

Maybe this post is political, I don't know. I've tried to keep it as neutral as possible, simply pointing out why I think that Israel (and arguably the US) will be seen with even more animosity by the world after this.
 
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