Israel attacks Gaza Strip

M

maglomanic

Junior Member
Israeli Forces Pull Out of Gaza Refugee Camp

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"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip ( — Israeli forces were pulling out of a refugee camp in central Gaza early Friday, residents said, and the military confirmed that a two-day sweep was completed.

In two days of battles in the Mughazi camp, Israeli forces killed at least 14 people, most of them militants. Residents said they left behind considerable destruction, tearing up water pipes and electricity wires.

The military said troops were moving out of the camp, but Israeli forces would continue operating there and in other places in the coming days in its campaign against Gaza terrorists.
"
 
Finn McCool

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
It's fairly obvious now that Israel is launching a large ground offensive into southern Lebanon to clear out rocket launching sites and push the envelope for launching rockets back so they cannot hit Israeli cities farther south. I wish Israel had embedded reporters, because it seems that there are some serious battles going on based on the numbers of Israeli casualties. I can only imagine what Hezbollah's casualties are.

Until we get more media reports on the ground fighting I don't think that we can draw any conclusions other than that the fighting is heavy and Hezbollah has put its six plus years of preparation to good use and is fighting professionally. However, without armour or an air presence, it is not realistic to think that Hezbollah can stop the Israeli advance.

Like my shiny new avatar?
 
crazyinsane105

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
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I doubt Hezbullah's aim is to stop the Israeli advance. Rather it is probably one of retreating, but figthing very heavily while falling back. It seems like the terrain is in Hezbullah's favor: the hilly tops of the Israel-Lebanon border are excellent places to conduct ambushes and hit and run attacks. Hezbullah doesn't seem to be losing a whole lot of fighters either: they have claimed to have lost only several (basically, they are losing as many or fewer troops than the Israelis). One thing about Hezbullah I like is that they don't BS about things. And to them, it won't matter if they lose 500 troops one day. The pre-dominately Shitte group embraces death.

Hezbullah has trained for years. They have been trained by the elite Revolutionary Guards of Iran (and there are a reported 100 of them in Lebanon, but in my opinion, the number is probably much higher). On ABC world news an Israeli commander called Hezbullah "a master of guerilla warfare." Also on that broadcast, while many people are fleeing Beirut and South Lebanon, many men have stayed behind to fight the Israelis...

On a personal note, one of my friends who is part Lebanese, part Iraqi, and part Iranian lost a distant relative several days ago in Lebanon. His mom's village was also bombed and 10 people had died in that attack. His mother, brother, and sister are also in Beirut right now and they are trying to get out of Lebanon (they are American citizens). May God help him and his family....
 
F

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
crazyinsane105 said:
I doubt Hezbullah's aim is to stop the Israeli advance. Rather it is probably one of retreating, but figthing very heavily while falling back. It seems like the terrain is in Hezbullah's favor: the hilly tops of the Israel-Lebanon border are excellent places to conduct ambushes and hit and run attacks. Hezbullah doesn't seem to be losing a whole lot of fighters either: they have claimed to have lost only several (basically, they are losing as many or fewer troops than the Israelis). One thing about Hezbullah I like is that they don't BS about things. And to them, it won't matter if they lose 500 troops one day. The pre-dominately Shitte group embraces death.

Hezbullah has trained for years. They have been trained by the elite Revolutionary Guards of Iran (and there are a reported 100 of them in Lebanon, but in my opinion, the number is probably much higher). On ABC world news an Israeli commander called Hezbullah "a master of guerilla warfare." Also on that broadcast, while many people are fleeing Beirut and South Lebanon, many men have stayed behind to fight the Israelis...

On a personal note, one of my friends who is part Lebanese, part Iraqi, and part Iranian lost a distant relative several days ago in Lebanon. His mom's village was also bombed and 10 people had died in that attack. His mother, brother, and sister are also in Beirut right now and they are trying to get out of Lebanon (they are American citizens). May God help him and his family....
Click to expand...

I hope his family are ok.

How is Hezbollah able to stay in those hills after intensive bombardment from
depleted uranium rounds etc ?

I mean I know they have some tunnels and stuff but surely that wouldn't protect them
 
Finn McCool

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
You'd be suprised at how effective tunnels are at allowing units to survive bombardments. Tora Bora is a good example. Any attack on a Pacific Island by the US Marines in WWII too.

I think that Hezbollah is suffering more losses than have been reported because South Lebanon is a no-go zone for the media. No one is reporting from there.

Anyway, Hezbollah has had years to study the terrain, prepare positions and generally get ready. So they will certainly inflict some heavy casualties. However, Hezbollah cannot mass troops for any sort of counterattack or defense other than harassing Israeli coulmns. The Israelis cannot bypass Hezbollah's strongest positions, they need to get control of the area and search it for rockets and other weapons. So I expect to see the Israelis cut off Hezbollah's bases, fortified hills and troop concentrations by trying to surrond them, then pounding the area with air power and artillery before moving in. I expect Hezbollah to try to defend fluidly without any static positions, trying to stay ahead of the Israeli units while still hitting them with rockets, IEDs, car bombs, hit and run attacks and suicide bombers. However, Hezbollah will stand and fight in a conventional manner if it is necessary to defend a certain area, for example to evacuate valuable rocket launchers.
 
F

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Finn McCool said:
You'd be suprised at how effective tunnels are at allowing units to survive bombardments. Tora Bora is a good example. Any attack on a Pacific Island by the US Marines in WWII too.

I think that Hezbollah is suffering more losses than have been reported because South Lebanon is a no-go zone for the media. No one is reporting from there.

Anyway, Hezbollah has had years to study the terrain, prepare positions and generally get ready. So they will certainly inflict some heavy casualties. However, Hezbollah cannot mass troops for any sort of counterattack or defense other than harassing Israeli coulmns. The Israelis cannot bypass Hezbollah's strongest positions, they need to get control of the area and search it for rockets and other weapons. So I expect to see the Israelis cut off Hezbollah's bases, fortified hills and troop concentrations by trying to surrond them, then pounding the area with air power and artillery before moving in. I expect Hezbollah to try to defend fluidly without any static positions, trying to stay ahead of the Israeli units while still hitting them with rockets, IEDs, car bombs, hit and run attacks and suicide bombers. However, Hezbollah will stand and fight in a conventional manner if it is necessary to defend a certain area, for example to evacuate valuable rocket launchers.
Click to expand...

I believe that Hezbollah will want to lure the Israeli's into Beirut and central
Lebanon, this would mean they would be confronted by the main lebanese army which of course would not last very long but would then bring the whole of Lebanon including the christians into conflict with Israel.

Once in Beirut Hezbollah would switch to urban guerilla warfare and Syria would permit the hundreds of thousands of Sunni's who have learnt the lessons of Iraq into Beirut as well as the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shi'ites.

Casualties on the muslim sunni, shia and christian side will be horrendous but of course they have sufficient manpower reserves.

Israel is being slowly led into a trap. Everything about this whole thing
so far shows that Hezbollah has planned everything very carefully and was fully aware of the Israeli response.
 
A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
crazyinsane105 said:
On a personal note, one of my friends who is part Lebanese, part Iraqi, and part Iranian lost a distant relative several days ago in Lebanon. His mom's village was also bombed and 10 people had died in that attack. His mother, brother, and sister are also in Beirut right now and they are trying to get out of Lebanon (they are American citizens). May God help him and his family....
Click to expand...

Hopefully they can get an evac from the US ships that are already on their way. Are the Israeli blocade preventing people from taking a boat to Cyprus?

IMO if the Hezbollah drag the Lebanonese military into this conflict, it'd definately escalate and prolly end with UN-enforced cease fire.
 
isthvan

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
Hezbollah shoved quite impressive level of tactical knowledge and they managed to inflict few quite embarrassing blows to IDF, but it seams that IDF isn’t showing any intentions for full scale invasion and they are more satisfied whit aerial strikes and artillery bombardment of Hezbollah’s positions and missile launchers…

Ground invasion of South Lebanon still remains possibility especially if we see that South Lebanon is practically cut off from the rest of the country but this is as far as IDF will go. More I look at development of this crisis more I’m sure that this won’t escalate.
Also one of most interesting things I have noticed is that majority of Arab regimes doesn’t seams to be too much interest for this crisis… Even Syrian rhetoric’s are quite mild compared to ones in the past…
 
utelore

utelore

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VIP Professional
I predict that If there is a Israel invasion of southern lebanon you will see a MAJOR battle in and around the city of "Sour". This is a fairly dense urban area on the coast with lots of foliage. I would say that Lebanon army special forces and tank units with the help of Hezbollah will be able to put up a pretty good fight from that city with the use of ATGW. I would also imagine you would see several hundred Iranian R-guard also hold up in the city. I think Israel would lose around 50 KIA with 200 WIA on the low end in the taking of the city which is a must because the city is used for the launching of long range rockets. THIS IS GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING FROM A MILITARY ANYLYST ASPECT....cheers ute.

PS isthvan if you look at the news clips the way Israel is stacking armoured coloms on roads near lebanon I think this is going to happen very soon
 
crazyinsane105

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
The Israelis are massing troops and armor on the Lebanese border as we speak. The time for invasion may only be days, if not hours, away. Utelore, I think the Israelis are going to suffer many more KIA and WIA than you had mentioned. Already they have lost 16 soldiers due to heavy fighting and several dozen wounded while Hezbullah has reported on losing only 6 of its fighters. And this is just on the border of Lebanon and not even in urban combat. This may be a Stalingrad type of battle where it is street to street and house to house. It is going to be a very bloody battle on both sides.
 
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