Israel attacks Gaza Strip

utelore

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I have just seen video footage on the news which was showed by Hezbollah TV. I can confirm I saw 1 Merkava get hit by a ATGW, 1 Heavy APC hit by another ATGW and another APC hit by a IED. All the ATGW attacks were done in slow frame so you could see it was a ATGW Also a report of at least 9 lebanese reg army getting killed in air strike....cheers ute.
 
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Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Was this a border skirmish or can we confirm that the IDF has moved into Lebanon?

Israel's strategy is idiotic. How is destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon going to damage Lebanon? This strategy can only push the region closer to all out war and does little damage to Hezbollah.

The evacuations are beginning. France is already withdrawing its people to Cyprus, and the Italians already withdrew most of their citizens to Syria and Cyprus in a big convoy of cars.
 

utelore

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Just a border skirmish of past video. there are reports of a massive buildup of israeli armour. Also a full mech Inf Div has now be recalled and is deploying to the north.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
utelore said:
Just a border skirmish of past video. there are reports of a massive buildup of israeli armour. Also a full mech Inf Div has now be recalled and is deploying to the north.

God. We know what that means. At the very least, the Israelis are going to move into southern Lebanon, attacking all the Hezbollah positions they can find and trying to root out the rocket launchings. The purpose is probably to push back the envelope for launching rockets so that Haifa and other cities that the Israelis thought were safe, until recently.

Secondly, I think that the Syrians are going to be scared by this. They might respond. Hopefully, they will continue to keep their heads down.

Of course, this is all assuming that the Israelis actually do move against Lebanon with ground troops.

Utelore, where did you get that information? And what does "Just a border skirmish of past video" mean?

If I were the Israelis, I would end the useless further bombing of infrastructure and concentrate on Hezbollah leadership and the launching of rockets. I would put Sayaret teams on strategic hilltops, etc. in Southern Lebanon with the objective of acting as FACs to target rocket launchings and obvious targets, like concentrations of gunmen, that are easily missed be jets flying over head. I would also send Special forces into Beiruit, secretly by boat. They would enter areas where there is Hezbollah activity and act as eyes for the IAF, able to spot targets of opportunity.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
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Utelore, I'm just wondering how you got to see that footage of the Israeli armor being destroyed. Do you have access to Hezbullah TV by any chance?:confused:
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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The BBC has been showing footage of what Lebanon is claiming is an Isreali
F-16 being shot down. No confirmation from Isreal

If this is true and coming so fast after the IDF AirStrike against a Lebanese Army Post, which killed 8 and Injured 12, I am wondering if this is evidence that the Lebanese Army is now resisting Isreali forces.

Anyone any more news on these events?
 

adeptitus

Captain
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Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Jeff Head said:
The Saar 5 has very capable ECM and EW capabilities. No, I think there was a level of ophisitication here that implies significant outside help.
<snip>
It's really amazing that with two 32 cell Barak systems, an 8 cell Gabriel II System, and a Phalanx CIWS, that this single drone got through.

Hmmm...

Jeff, I think the systems look good on paper, BUT:

* The Gabriel Mk.2 is an anti-ship missile (not air defense)
* Both the Barak and Phalanx CIWS systems are unproven
* The 20mm Phalanx CIWS gun has not been credited with any successful interceptions in war

In comparison, the British Sea Dart missile, despite its age and failings, has had more success in both Falklands and 1991 Gulf War. Also, I've noticed the RN preferred to upgrade/replace 20mm Phalanx CIWS with 30mm Goalkeeper system (i.e. HMS Invincible).

Still, I think it's amazing that the Israelis could equip such a small Corvette with so much weapons! Its warload of 8 x Harpoons, 8 x Gabriel Mk.2's, CIWS Gun, 2 x 32-cel VLS launchers, 6 x Mk 46 torpedos, & ASW Helicopter makes it better armed than most Frigates today!

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Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Well here we go

JERUSALEM - The Israeli military said small number of ground troops have entered southern Lebanon on Wednesday searching for tunnels and mines, raising doubts about international efforts to broker an immediate cease-fire in the fighting that has killed more than 260 people and displaced 500,000.

Israel declared it was ready to fight Hezbollah guerrillas for several more weeks. Despite the diplomatic activity, Israel is in no hurry to end its offensive, which it sees as a unique opportunity to crush Hezbollah. The Islamic militants appear to have steadily built up their military strength after Israel pulled its troops out of southern Lebanon in 2000.

Israeli warplanes struck an army base outside Beirut and other areas in south Lebanon on Tuesday, killing 27 people, and Hezbollah rockets battered Israeli towns, killing one Israeli. Five big explosions reverberated over Beirut early Wednesday, and missiles hit towns to the east and south of the capital

Israeli Ground troops have entered Lebanon to root out Hezbollah guerillas. Syria will probably do nothing. If Hezbollah has ATGMs like Ute says, the IDF could have some problems, but I don't think anything will stop them from reaching their objectives. Whatever those may be.

Its only a small unit searching for mines, tunnels and explosives but I think that they are intended to clear the way for a larger force. Why else would you be senfing you troops into an exposed position looking for mines?
 
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ckmlb

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Let's be realistic here.

Syria and Iran will not directly intervene in this war, it's all between Israel and Huzb Allah. The objectives of this Israeli campaign are political. It will result in political agreements later on that I will not go into.

As far as military matters go, an Israeli invasion of Lebanon would be a complete disaster. If you thought the US presence in Iraq is a quagmire than this is the mother of all quagmires (lemme use expressions similar to the coward Saddam ;) )

Here's the truth, the ability of Huzb Allah to confront an Israeli invasion is much greater than at any previous time (in military terms, popular terms, political terms and whatever terms you can think of). The Katyoushas and other rockets and missiles will keep raining on Israel until the political solutions come at the end of all this.

How can anyone say the IDF will wipe out Huzb Allah or even talk about hurting them badly? I mean the past Israeli experience in Lebanon is the model to follow and that is dwarved by what hell the IDF would go through this time around if there was an invasion.

The Huzb Allah keep getting more and more weapons, also more advanced weaponry since time has gone by (even Zalzel missiles now from Iran that can hit anywhere in Israel) also they have been sitting in south Lebanon and preparing it. Essentially it is IED city in addition to that you have weapons caches and additional explosives probably all over the south and other part of the country. No, the IDF is way too intelligent than to carry out a ground invasion of Lebanon again.

This will be a limited war not in the time it lasts (Cause I really don't see how the Israelis will be able to procclaim victory or even objectives achieved at any point... maybe when Huzb Allah runs out of rockets to launch? :p)

This campaign is made so that afterwards there will be multi party negotiations that include Huzb Allah's two sponsors and Israel and the US (directly or indirectly) all setting out terms to how things will be after. As for Huzb Allah disarming, I think even this campaign will not result in it, the current Lebanese ruling coalition (the anti-Syrians) have already asked it manye times and this has been debated to death in Lebanon's political community. Even the damage of this campaign is not going to change the people who say that Huzb Allah should stay armed (mostly the Shiite with some Pro-Syrian parties) or the ones who already want the party to disarm (the current government and partners).

This is why I see only one way this will end in a very temporary set of conditions, already the Israelis are toning down the demands (initially it was crush Huzb Allah, now weaken + initially disarm Huzb Allah, now force them out of the firing range of north Israel). This whole issue of a buffer zone being implemented (not by an Israeli occupation, but by a political agreement after this conflict) is problematic at best since now we are seeing Huzb Allah has longer and longer ranged weapons.

The only other thing I can think of is psychological warfare??? And this will compeltely fail if the IDF doesn't understand this yet. Frankly, this airial bombing campaign no matter how much more intense it gets is a walk in the park on a very sunny day in comparison to what the Lebanese civil war was to the people of Lebanon and to the civil war that would break out if the Lebanese army or government tried to disarm Huzb Allah by force (as naively suggested by some Israeli government and military officials, and disengeneously I might add).

I would like to conclude the whole thing with :china: since I've never seen that before and it brought a smile to my face :)

PS: the whole talk of Israeli ground troops is small incursions into southern areas with quick withdrawals and Special operatiosn not an actual invasion of any kind. Also the Lebanese army Anti Aircraft will have to be the luckiest thing on earth to ever hit an Israeli aircraft...
 
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