Israel attacks Gaza Strip

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

I bet this is on a tactical level is opening some eyes. I imagine the U.S navy is looking at this because of the amount of U.S warships near Iran in the Persian gulf. I think this will embolden the Iranians into thinking they might have a chance to pop a U.S warship if conflict should arise.

Tphuang ,I am thinking that maybe some Revolutionary Guards may have conducted this operation against the Israeli warship as it was a fairly advanced piece of Iranian equipment. There are between 150 and 500+ in Lebanon as we speak.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Jeff Head said:

Definetely...and then most likely. I know they are capable, but must conclude that they were not data linked to anything that gave them sufficient warning....else the Barak or the Gabriel IIs would have taken the thing out. Or they would have had time to manuever so they could bring the CIWS to bear.

Either way, this is a huge coup for Hezbollah. Before today, almost anyone would have considered it next to impossible for Hezbollah to do this...which gives even more credence to them having had ehlp in a big way.

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Hmm...remember that incident where 5 Silk worms hit a Kuwaiti mall during the 2003 Iraq war? All this even though there were AWACs, Aegis ships, and Patriot missiles everywhere? The problem was that the missiles were flying too low and were probably lost in the ground clutter plus there must have been a very short warning time. In this case, the warship was close enough to be seen off the coast of Beirut. The drone is about 9 feet long and it probably got lost in the ground clutter since it's extremely small. So by the time it got to sea (it was probably going at a medium subsonic speed), there was very little warning even if it was detected.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

tphuang said:

Jeff, do you know where Hezbollah even got these capabilities from? It seems strange that a terrorist organization would have access to advanced UAV.

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To me, it implies a higher level of sophistication than Hezbollah, Syria, or Iran is capable of. Implies weapons from someone like Russia, China, or even France. Who knows? Perhaps Iran has more than they are given credit for.

Either way, you can bet a LOT of people will be analyzing this and making changes in engagement procedures to try and account for it.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

crazyinsane105 said:

In this case, the warship was close enough to be seen off the coast of Beirut. The drone is about 9 feet long and it probably got lost in the ground clutter since it's extremely small. So by the time it got to sea (it was probably going at a medium subsonic speed), there was very little warning even if it was detected.

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It came in from the stern, low and fast. I believe that is almost certain. But the capability of guiding the thing with passive guidance out to 16 km off shore to do this against a moving and very sophisticated target, whose layered defense systems (Barka, Gabriel II, CIWS) were designed precisely for this type of attack, is much more than Hezbollah was thought capable of.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

The drone itself was Iranian. I suspect that the operators were also Iranian. Although it is possible that they were Hezbollah guerillas. It would be foolish for Iran to give drones to Hezbollah without also giving them the training to use them.

Certainly, Hezbollah is far more capable than the Iraqi Army in 2003, and has the equipment to carry out more attacks like this. However, I don't think that ships would be a good target. Israel is ready for that now. I would target air bases, aiming for fuel tanks or parked planes. If the drone defeated the defence systems of the Saar 5, it could get at an air base. There would be ground clutter right up to the target, and terrain could be used to conceal its approach. The main issue would be range.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Finn McCool said:

The main issue would be range.

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Reuters has reported that it can hit targets up to 120 km if the power is increased and it retains a payload of 90 pounds. Yeah, if they start hitting air bases and parked aircraft, that would be something.

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

UAVs function like slow speed cruise missile... it is not a complex weapon, but it isn't cheap, i wonder how many they could afford to use...

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

"To me, it implies a higher level of sophistication than Hezbollah, Syria, or Iran is capable of. Implies weapons from someone like Russia, China, or even France. Who knows? Perhaps Iran has more than they are given credit for."

Actually, Hezbollah is perfectly capable of designing and building such a low level attack drone. Remeber the Hezbollah recon drone that flew into Israeli terrotory?



The drone might be of Iranian origion, but Hezbollah can certainly copy it.



Another thing is that I think many of you are thinking too hard about this. What about a simple large wooden remote control aircraft slugged with a optic camera with a simple data link? They could simply use internet ordered control equipment with mabye a large amplifier.

Of couse, if the corvette has jamming....than it could get complicated.....

Well there might be few explanations why Hezbollah managed to pull this of… Israeli navy probably didn’t count on any aerial treats, ship was close to the shore shelling costal targets and Hezbollah’s UAV probably came in low and slow and was lost in the ground clutter…
While sensors of the ship do cover 360°; air search radar for the Barak system is looking side-ways 180°. So ship was probably sailing whit weak side to the coast. i.e. aft/rear mid section was exposed and sensors were blind… This is quite expensive lesson for Israeli navy…

Also UAV is of Iranian origins and it’s to sophisticated design to be built/ copied by few guerillas in someone’s garage… Plane itself could be produced by them but guidance system and control equipment are quite out of there range of sophistication…

Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

xihaoli said:

Of couse, if the corvette has jamming....than it could get complicated.....

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The Saar 5 has very capable ECM and EW capabilities. No, I think there was a level of ophisitication here that implies significant outside help.

This was not an attack on a lightly armed or moderately capable gun-boat. It was an attack on the most sophisticated anti-air missile ship the IDF has, and arguably the best Corvette of its class in the world. The Saar 5 are VERY capable vessels. As I Have stated, it is a HUGE coup for Hezbollah to hit and mission kill this ship in the manner that they did and something that naval analysts all over the world will be pouring over.

Some, on one side, to better prepare defenses against future attacks. Others, on the other side, to exploit the weaknesses that this has revealed.

It's really amazing that with two 32 cell Barak systems, an 8 cell Gabriel II System, and a Phalanx CIWS, that this single drone got through.

Either the IDF was very lax out there (which I doubt, but which could explain it), or the drone was sophisticated enough to get past all of that and the vessels EW suite.

IIMHO, a huge development from a naval warfare standpoint.

Jeff has started a new thread on the subject of the Israel ship being struck in which we can discuss the events and ramifications of this naval event

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?p=39663&posted=1#post39663

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