Israel attacks Gaza Strip

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
adeptitus said:
IMO the Israelis already tried invasion, occupation, and propping up friendlies (SLA), and all of them flopped. So now they're hoping to roll over Hezbollah and force the Lebanon army to deploy south and take control. At least then there would be some accountability, and making the Hezbollah look like a liability.

The IDF has been very careful not to destroy the Lebanon army. If they can successfully force the Lebanon army to get off their butts and deploy south right up to the Israeli-Lebanon border to take control and clamp down on militants, it'd be a strategtic victory for the IDF.

The question is-Can the Lebanese Army handle Hezbollah? I don't think it could control Hezbollah and the border if it wanted too. Any attempt to do that would probably splinter the Lebanese Army along ethnic lines. And help from Israel is out of the question. I think that the UN is going to have to deploy a peacekeeping force along the border.

What is Hamas going to do in all of this? What's going on in Gaza? Are the Israelis attacking there? All of the news outlets are so fixated on Lebanon that they are not reporting on Gaza.

A Katyuhsa
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A Merkava MK 4
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A squad of suited up IDF soldiers
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Their enemy; A Hezbollah Soldier
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Poor Lebanon
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Some more Katyushas-Hezbollah's emblem is to the left.
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The Iranian Truck mounted version of the Fajr 5, the missle that hit Haifa.
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A Hamas fighter. I hope I don't get arrested by the FBI for posting this. I'm not a terrorist. I'm really not. I love America.
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A vintage image from the Six Day War
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F-15s of the IAF
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An Israeli mobile artillery piece in action

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Beirut on a normal night

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A bomb explodes on a runway at Beirut International Airport

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A Saar 5, one of Israel's most advanced warships. One of these was hit by a UAV in an incident I'm sure you have all heard about.
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Soldiers of the Lebanese Army. I doubt that they can rein in Hezbollah, and they definately can't stand up to the IDF. It sucks to be them, for lack of a better term.
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Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

This is a very interesting development. Hezbollah used the only asset it had in a very unconventional way to cause major damage to Israel in an area where Israel thought it was unchallenged.

The latest news says that the UAV was aiming for the Saar 5 but hit a merchant ship.

I see other news that says it was a warship though. So basically I have no idea what they hit.
 
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Roger604

Senior Member
Regarding the show of hands:

I think a ground war will break out. This will not be limited to airstrikes only.

After that, I think Israel will take the fight to Syria.


EDITED TO ADD:

Huh, this is interesting. I wonder if this is reliable news or total BS.

Syria, Iran seen as behind kidnappings

By DONNA ABU-NASR
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

BEIRUT, Lebanon -- The fighting between Israeli forces and Islamic militants in Lebanon hasn't touched Iran or Syria yet, but many analysts think those countries were the hidden hand behind Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers.

At the White House and in Arab capitals, the belief is strong that the Mideast's top two hard-line states are playing a dangerous game to increase their influence. However, analysts say it could backfire and weaken Hezbollah, and by extension its two patrons.

"We would be idiots if we believed it was only about the Israeli captives," Hazem Saghieh, a senior Lebanese columnist with the London-based Arabic newspaper Al-Hayat, told The Associated Press.

"The issue, at the end of the day, is all about Syria and Iran, and Hezbollah is just giving them more trump cards," Saghieh said.

Wednesday's seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah guerrillas came at a time of mounting tensions between the two Mideast powers and the West.

Iran is embroiled in a diplomatic fight with Europe and the U.S. over its nuclear program. Washington accuses Syria of sending insurgents to Iraq, interfering in Lebanon and hosting the Palestinian militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Syria is also believed to have been behind the collapse of a deal that would have led to the release of an Israeli soldier captured by Hamas militants along Israel's frontier with Gaza on June 25.

Iran and Syria, analysts say, believe the intensified violence will help strengthen their positions in their conflicts with the West and show they hold the key to a settlement of the Arab-Israeli issue.

The White House said Wednesday, hours after Hezbollah took the two Israelis, that it holds Iran and Syria responsible.

On Friday, French President Jacques Chirac implicitly suggested the two states might have a role in the expanding crisis, saying he has "the feeling, if not the conviction, that Hamas and Hezbollah wouldn't have taken the initiatives alone."

Moderate Arab governments like Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia appear to have the same belief - though they haven't said so outright because of a reluctance to show splits with fellow Muslim nations. Instead, it's reflected in their mild criticisms of Israel's air campaign in Lebanon and their indirect denunciations of Hezbollah.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel couldn't hurt Iran in its campaign, declaring Israel and its Western supporters "do not even have the power to give Iran a nasty look."

Earlier, he called Syrian President Bashar Assad and assured him that if Israel attacks Syria "it will be equivalent to an attack on the whole Islamic world and the regime (Israel) will face a crushing response."

Ahmadinejad has often fanned anti-Israeli sentiment to bolster his image as a fierce opponent of the West, saying Israel should be "wiped off the map" and casting doubt on the Nazi Holocaust.

The Iranians "have an interest in fomenting as much trouble here as they can and think that it will benefit them somehow in terms of their ambitions in the region and ultimately how they resolve the nuclear question," said Dennis Ross, a former U.S. Mideast envoy.

"In the case of Syria ... they feel this makes them a factor, that people have to pay attention to them," he said.

But they may have miscalculated.

In Lebanon, there is mounting resentment against the Hezbollah action, which has killed a tourism season many had expected to be one of Lebanon's best.

If Hezbollah fails to win a prisoner swap for the soldiers and if Israel carries out its threat to push Hezbollah away from its border, the group will be blamed for the damage to Lebanon.

"Hezbollah will definitely emerge as a loser," said Saghieh, the columnist for Al-Hayat. "It's hijacked the country and is demanding the Lebanese pay with their lives for its actions."

"The people and other political parties are going to demand that Hezbollah account for its actions since it has always claimed that its resistance offered us protection," he said.

Paul Salem, director of the Middle East Center of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Hezbollah's military presence in the south was seen by many Lebanese as a deterrent against any Israeli attack on Lebanon and even on Iran.

"But if you use your military power, you lose it," said Salem. "It will no longer be a deterrent."

Israel destroyed the home and office of Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah on Friday, but Hezbollah said Nasrallah and his family were safe.

While Iran doesn't have a stake in seeing the violence end, Syria might "if they decide that it's becoming more costly to them," Ross said.

"That's where the Saudis could play a major role," by pressuring Damascus, he said.

Saudi Arabia has harshly criticized Hezbollah, without naming it directly, for escalating the situation, saying "uncalculated adventures" could precipitate a new Middle East crisis.

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Undead Yogurt said:
Are you sure it's the Saar 5? If so, it's a grave (and baffling) loss for Israeli, since it apparently only has 3 of those. Quite a coup for Hezbollah.
Almost all of the press reports speak of the drone hittng on or near the helo landing pad. I believe that the only helo capable missile ship the IDF has is the Saar 5.

(Edited to add this:)

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Ship struck off Beirut shore; four crewmembers missing

Israeli vessel imposing sea blockade on Lebanon hit.

Four days into fighting in Lebanon, and the IDF once again absorbs a heavy blow: Four IDF soldiers went missing Friday night when their navy gunship suffered a direct hit in a Hizbullah strike.

The stern of the ship was hit shortly after 8:30 p.m. Friday night and a conflagration ignited on the helicopter landing pad. The hit also damaged the ship’s internal operating systems.

The damaged ship was a Saar 5 navy gunship that was 16 kilometers (10 miles) from the Lebanese shore when it was hit, enforcing the sea blockade which was imposed on Lebanon Thursday.


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...and you are right. To hit one of these sophisticated Corvettes is a huge coup for Hezbollah. Yesterday I would have given them little to no chance of doing so.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Finn McCool said:
The latest news says that the UAV was aiming for the Saar 5 but hit a merchant ship.
Apparently a number of missiles/drones were launched during the intitial engagement. That's the latest I have read. One hit the Israeli vessel on or near its helo pad (which would make it a Saar 5), another hit an Egyptian merchant vessel. I believe we are hearing different reports about two hits during the same time frame.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

It also implies that the Saar 5 was perhaps not data linked to other assets that could have seen the threat first and given the vessel more time to prepare. Sounds like it came in low to the deck, fast, from the stern so the CIWS could not be brought to bear. Or it may have been one of the vessels without the CIWS.

The Saar 5 was definetely data linked. The Israelis are launching coordinated air, land, and sea attacks. It would be madness and a little chaotic if some of the units weren't datalinked plus the Israelis are probably testing their own type of shock and awe against a country. They are probably testing all their equipment so the Saar 5 was most likely datalinked.

This drone must have been packing a massive warhead (maybe up to 40 kg as reported in Reuters). If Hezbullah conducts more aerial drone attacks against the IDF, it can be devestating. Just imagine them launching a dozen or so drones against Israeli artillery or armored formations. It would be a response to the IDF's bombardment. I think more of these drones are probably on the way from Iran via Syria if you ask me...
 

utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Lets not lose are heads now men, This will have little outcome of the war. . I think many people have underestimated Hizbullah a bit. I am interested to see what other tricks Hizbullah have up their burka. I also bet the Israeli show more caution with their warships. This is a good example you should never under estimate your enemy.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

crazyinsane105 said:
The Saar 5 was definetely data linked. They are probably testing all their equipment so the Saar 5 was most likely datalinked.
Definetely...and then most likely. I know they are capable, but must conclude that they were not data linked to anything that gave them sufficient warning....else the Barak or the Gabriel IIs would have taken the thing out. Or they would have had time to manuever so they could bring the CIWS to bear.

Either way, this is a huge coup for Hezbollah. Before today, almost anyone would have considered it next to impossible for Hezbollah to do this...which gives even more credence to them having had ehlp in a big way.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

utelore said:
Lets not lose are heads now men, This will have little outcome of the war. I also bet the Israeli show more caution with their warships. This is a good example you should never under estimate your enemy.
Not losing my head...and you are correct, NEVER underestimate your enemy. I am just commenting on a fairly significant engagement in terms of technical capability. This engagement will be studied a LOT by naval analysts all over the world. The Saar V is considered a very capable vessel and would have, before today, been thought extremely well defended against such an attack.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Registered Member
Re: Israel says Hezbollah drone damages warship

Jeff Head said:
Not losing my head...and you are correct, NEVER underestimate your enemy. I am just commenting on a fairly significant engagement in terms of technical capability. This engagement will be studied a LOT by naval analysts all over the world. The Saar V is considered a very capable vessel and would have, before today, been thought extremely well defended against such an attack.
Jeff, do you know where Hezbollah even got these capabilities from? It seems strange that a terrorist organization would have access to advanced UAV.
 
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