ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
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CNN said:
British lawmakers meeting in emergency session approved a motion Friday to participate in airstrikes against ISIS targets in Iraq.

The 524-43 vote came after Prime Minister David Cameron told Parliament that the country had a "duty to take part" in international efforts to combat the extremist group.

The terror group is an organization of "staggering" brutality, he said, which has already killed one British hostage and threatens the lives of two more.

"This is not a threat on the far side of the world," he said, but one which menaces European nations directly.

In addition to an ISIS-inspired attack on a Jewish museum in Brussels earlier in the year, Europe's security agencies have disrupted six other ISIS-linked plots, he said.

Parliament was recalled by Cameron for the vote on military action in Iraq, which was approved after lengthy debate in the House of Commons and House of Lords. Any proposal to expand the strikes to Syria would require additional action by Parliament, according to the motion.

Cameron said Britain should join international allies in combating ISIS, a campaign that he warned would take years, not months. "The hallmarks will be patience and persistence, not shock and awe," he said.

The government insists such action is legal because Iraq's government has requested international help to tackle the Sunni extremist group, which has overrun vast swathes of Iraq and Syria and massacred religious minorities and Shia Muslims.

Cameron made that point again Friday, saying there was "no question" of the legality of action given the request by Iraq's leaders and the broad international backing for the campaign against ISIS.

Some MPs may be reluctant to back a bombing campaign in Iraq because of doubts over its effectiveness or unhappiness over past UK military intervention in Iraq.

But action has been backed by the governing coalition of the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, as well as the opposition Labour Party.

Labour leader Ed Miliband told lawmakers the United Kingdom "cannot simply stand by" against the threat of ISIS.

Now that it's been approved, military action could start within hours. UK forces have already been taking part in surveillance missions over Iraq, as well as aiding Kurdish forces with equipment.

'Past mistakes'

Cameron acknowledged that the memory of going to war in Iraq in 2003, when Labour's Tony Blair was Prime Minister, "hangs heavy" over the House of Commons. "This is not 2003, but we must not use past mistakes as an excuse for inaction," he said.
There is "no realistic prospect" of defeating ISIS without military action, he said, and Britain has unique assets that no other coalition partner can offer, including precision missiles and surveillance capabilities.

"It is also our duty to take part," he said. "Protecting the streets of Britain is not a task that we are prepared to entirely subcontract to other air forces of other countries."

Last year, Cameron suffered a painful defeat in the Commons when MPs voted against action in Syria in response to claims the Syrian government had used chemical weapons against its own people.

The motion approved by Parliament on Friday specifically rules out action in Syria unless a separate vote is held. It also rules out the use of UK troops in any possible ground combat operations in Iraq.

Cameron: 'Strong case' for Syria action

Asked about the possibility of a change of approach to Syria, Cameron said the situation there was "more complicated" than in Iraq and that he was not going to change strategy right now.

"ISIS needs to be destroyed in Syria as well as Iraq and we support the action the U.S. and five Arab states have taken in Syria and I do believe there is a strong case for us to do more in Syria," he said. "But I did not want to bring a motion to the house today which there wasn't consensus for."

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond told CNN before the vote he was confident the MPs would approve Britain's participation in the Iraq air campaign against ISIS, but "there will be assurances that they want to receive."

On the likelihood of Britain's involvement in Syria, Hammond said that it is not inevitable but that the possibility hasn't been ruled out yet.

The United States and its coalition partners began bombing raids in Syria this week against ISIS targets.

U.S. aircraft had already been carrying out airstrikes against ISIS -- the group also known as ISIL, which calls itself the Islamic State -- in Iraq since last month.

'Haven for terrorism'

Miliband, explaining his support for the motion, said that ISIS' ambition to create an Islamist state risks destabilizing the region and make it more likely that Iraq would become "a haven and training ground for terrorism" directed at the UK.

He said some in the House of Commons may be wondering if this is a repeat of what happened in the run-up to the 2003 war in Iraq. "In my view, it is not," he said, arguing the circumstances now are "demonstrably different."

On Syria, Miliband differed from Cameron's view, saying that he would want to see U.N. authorization for action there before Britain stepped in.

Former Defense Secretary Liam Fox, a Conservative, said he believed there was a legal basis for action against ISIS in Syria and that it should have been up for debate too.

"Sooner or later we are going to have to do it. It would have been far better if we had said so today," he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, said earlier this week that his party would support the air campaign in Iraq because it is legal and has been requested by the Iraqi government.

Also, he said, "It's part of a much bigger coalition, a whole array of countries, crucially including a number of Arab countries which deprives ISIL of the ability to somehow portray it as a 'West vs. the rest' crusade."

Good on the UK.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Hmmm...despite his statements to the contrary, Obama is sending more and more "Boots on the Ground," to Iraq. In addition to the normal Embassy and Consulate Marine Guards, I now show the following having been announced to go to Iraq since June:

June announced: 275 Special Operation Forces to help train iraqi military in the fac of the ISIS gains.
July announced: 300 additional defense/security forces for the US Embassy, for consolates, and other US assests in Iraq.
August anounced: 300 Assessment teams, advisors at iraqi Joint Operation Centers, and Office of Security Cooperation
September announced 475 Command and controls advisors at Iraqi HQ and to Iraqi and Peshmerga forces.

That's a total of 1,350 troops on the groiund in Iraq at this point. It will be intersesting to see if that trend continues, and to what extent.

Is anyone surprised Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth? He'd put a square peg into round hole, and blame racism and Bush when it doesn't work.
 

delft

Brigadier
Interesting that they remind everyone that the actions have been asked for by the Iraqi government. The Syrian government didn't ask for support for the terrorists sponsored by Arab and Western countries in Syria but that is clearly unimportant to them.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
Hmmm...despite his statements to the contrary, Obama is sending more and more "Boots on the Ground," to Iraq. In addition to the normal Embassy and Consulate Marine Guards, I now show the following having been announced to go to Iraq since June:

June announced: 275 Special Operation Forces to help train iraqi military in the fac of the ISIS gains.
July announced: 300 additional defense/security forces for the US Embassy, for consolates, and other US assests in Iraq.
August anounced: 300 Assessment teams, advisors at iraqi Joint Operation Centers, and Office of Security Cooperation
September announced 475 Command and controls advisors at Iraqi HQ and to Iraqi and Peshmerga forces.

That's a total of 1,350 troops on the groiund in Iraq at this point. It will be intersesting to see if that trend continues, and to what extent.

I'm not sure about you Jeff but I've never had any illusions about the campaign against ISIS being solely an air one. Some boots on the ground are going to be required no matter what our leaders pitch to the voters.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Interesting that they remind everyone that the actions have been asked for by the Iraqi government. The Syrian government didn't ask for support for the terrorists sponsored by Arab and Western countries in Syria but that is clearly unimportant to them.

I have never seen more of a incompetent army and government than the current Iraqi establishment

Between 2003-2011 the US spent between $25-30 billion training and equipping the Iraqi security forces and pretty much within a few days they left their post to ISIS not only that they left M1 Abram tanks and scores of IFV and Humvees to ISIS too

Anyone who even suggests that Iraqi or Kurds should do the ground work is seriously misguided it's like the blind leading the blind

The backwardness and corruption that exists is beyond imaginable, there was a special battalion of Iraqi security forces who was meant to be a elite group of soldiers 800 strong when it came to the fighting only 300 turned up and less than half didn't even know how to use their weapons the rest fled as soon as ISIS showed up you work out the rest

To ask the Iraqis to do the ground work while collation does the air strikes is like asking a bank robber to look after the bank while you switch off the CCTV cameras

Either you go in 300,000 soldiers strong or you leave it , air strikes alone will do nothing unless you have boots on the ground no air campaign from a military perspective will work without boots on the ground

Boots on the ground is a prerequisite for a air campaign you need to know what your hitting and what is the targets you need eyes you need ears you need men on the ground there's no two ways about this it might be 100 men of 100,000 men but you need a presence on the ground
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
last economic report i saw today was talking about a strong Us Dollar.
but Economics are not the subject of our intrest

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Yes Saudi and UAE are in this campaign but to suggest that their contribution is a big factor is like saying that only two local school kids are supporting the general election! It's make no military difference

The UAE female pilot that has been widely advertised as a Arab hero is following strict aviation path in and out of a zone you might as well have the pilot replaced by a monkey probably do a better job

The targets are being illuminated by the Americans and Arabs are just pressing the button cheering like they just hit the jackpot it makes me cringe at the prospect it's really childish and immature

There's no threat and no dogfighting no enemy air to air engagement nothing but following protocols and then declaring victory

Arab country's have some of the best equipment money can buy and I mean the best equipment, yet they are unable to even hit a desert rat on their own

This whole Arab contribution is a shambles it's just a face saving for coalition to show that they are not doing this on their own to avoid any sort of backlash from other Muslim country's
 

shen

Senior Member
I'm not sure about you Jeff but I've never had any illusions about the campaign against ISIS being solely an air one. Some boots on the ground are going to be required no matter what our leaders pitch to the voters.

SouthernSky, I was wondering if people in Australia are curious why the plot to behead Australian civilians was announced the day before or was it the day when your government announced military commitment.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
SouthernSky, I was wondering if people in Australia are curious why the plot to behead Australian civilians was announced the day before or was it the day when your government announced military commitment.

Are you suggesting some sort of conspiracy shen?
 

delft

Brigadier
I have never seen more of a incompetent army and government than the current Iraqi establishment

Between 2003-2011 the US spent between $25-30 billion training and equipping the Iraqi security forces and pretty much within a few days they left their post to ISIS not only that they left M1 Abram tanks and scores of IFV and Humvees to ISIS too

Anyone who even suggests that Iraqi or Kurds should do the ground work is seriously misguided it's like the blind leading the blind

The backwardness and corruption that exists is beyond imaginable, there was a special battalion of Iraqi security forces who was meant to be a elite group of soldiers 800 strong when it came to the fighting only 300 turned up and less than half didn't even know how to use their weapons the rest fled as soon as ISIS showed up you work out the rest

To ask the Iraqis to do the ground work while collation does the air strikes is like asking a bank robber to look after the bank while you switch off the CCTV cameras

Either you go in 300,000 soldiers strong or you leave it , air strikes alone will do nothing unless you have boots on the ground no air campaign from a military perspective will work without boots on the ground

Boots on the ground is a prerequisite for a air campaign you need to know what your hitting and what is the targets you need eyes you need ears you need men on the ground there's no two ways about this it might be 100 men of 100,000 men but you need a presence on the ground
According to Peter Van Buren, who was a high State Depaertment figure in Iraq concerned with these matters, the other parts of the Iraqi "nation building" exercise were totally corrupt so what reason did we have to believe the military side was any better? Now we know it wasn't better.
 

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
Why don't Russia join the coalition and attack ISIS in Syria. When the US decided to attack Al Nusra which is a part of the syrian opposition don't the Russians have all the reasons to "help" the coalition by destroying Al Nusra, ISIS and other strong islamic groups while the SAA can redirect their troops to the FSA front.
 
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