ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

I'm surprised at that sheer number of Europeans amongst the ranks of ISIS especially those from France and the UK! the DGSE and MI-6 have got their work cut out for them for sure.
My fear is some of these battle hardened folks will ultimately return to their homeland and continue their terror activities.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

No, it is a well known genesis.

Al Queda Iraq was led by Zarqawi. when he was killed in June 2006 by a US attack based on US and Iraqi intelligence, it marked a turning point for AQI. Abu Ayyub al-Masri, an Egyptian-born explosives expert and former Zawahiri confidant, became AQI's new leader. In October of that year (2006) al-Masri adopted the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) alias in an effort to increase the group's local appeal and establish theirbterritorial ambitions.

After expanding into Syria (largely because it was being moved out of/defeated in Iraq due to the strategies I previously talked about), it adopted the name ISIS. This also reflected its new ambitions because instability in neighboring Syria in 2011 created new opportunities for it despie its loss in Iraq to US/Iraqi forces.

Now ISIS is led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, also known as Abu Du'a.

Actually, they have always had ambitions toward a caliphate and its establishment.

But to do that they need tribes nd tribal leaders to support them. The US/Iraqi strategies denied them this earlier. Ater policies of the Iraqi government opened that opportunity back up as we have seen.

I don't dispute any of what you say, but that doesn't change the fact that ISIS is *now* a very different beast from what al-qaida was a few years ago.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

I have read through this topic, seeing a lot of members taking a crack at the situation in Syria & Iraq.

How about a perspective of a Muslim, who has come across their kind.

Before I start, let me tell a bit about myself. I am a Pukhtun, from Parachinar - Pakistan. This is a part of Pakistan where the Tribal Culture has flourished for hundreds of years. It is also the same part of Pakistan, from where my father, uncles and myself have witnessed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the fight back by the Mujahideen and the emergence of Taliban.

Now, to come back to Syria & Iraq.

To understand what is happening there, you need to look at the demographics, the historical background, the rivalries and the motivation embedded within those rivalries.

An Alawite (affiliate sect to Shi'ites) in power over a largely Sunni Syria, for decades. Where as Iraq, Pre-2003, was a Sunni in power over a largely Shi'ite Iraq. Neither Assad, nor Saddam, were or are in any way shape or form, the power-brokers in the region and their respective countries. They were/are mere pawns and will be discarded when they're no longer of use to either parties.

One has to understand that this region has faced a Sunni/Shi'ite power struggle over centuries. Albeit, not at the unrelenting, ruthless levels that we see today.

So who are the real power brokers in the Middle East region? As it is the Power-Brokers, who have ability to change the political landscape of the region. And if you can identify them, then you know who is actually pulling the strings in the Middle East.

Well for the Islamic World, the region is being contested by the Iranian Mullah Regime on one side. With their influence reaching toward the Uzbek/Farsiban faction in the East (Afghanistan) and the Alawite/Hezbollah/Hamas allies in the West (Syria, Iraq, Lebanon & Palestine). Focusing on Jerusalem and using the plight of the Palestinian people as their way of winning popularity in the Islamic World. In essence, legitimizing themselves as the saviors of the Islamic World.

The Iranian Mullahs have supported the Farsiban/Uzbek ethnic groups in Afghanistan. In the 1990s, when the Soviet-Afghan War was over. It was the Iranian Mullahs who supported the Northern Alliance, consisting of Shi'ite ethnic Farsiban. Supported by ethnic Uzbeks & Tajiks of Afghanistan. It was a battle for control of Afghanistan, not for Afghans. Rather for the Saudi backed Al-Qaeda, who used the Taliban. And the Iranian Mullah Regime backed Norther Alliance, who used Ahmad Shah Mehsud (a Tajik Sunni). The losers, were innocent people of Afghanistan, caught in the crossfire.

The Iranian Mullahs also managed to gain influence and power in Iraq. Where a Shi'ite became the Prime Minister of Iraq and it's parliament filled with mostly Shi'ite members. By default, the Sunnis became the target of vengeance or were ignored. Iran's influence afforded it access to Jordan. To use it's reach for Fatah and an ambitious plan to erode the rival's influence over the group, replacing it with their own. Their goal, to have another Hamas type situation, in the West-Bank. And a diminished influence of the Saudi-Qataris, would also afford them Palestinian Peace Talks.

In other words, they sought to establish in the Islamic World. That they and not the Saudi-Qataris, would finally bring peace to Palestine.

On the other hand, the Saudi-Qatari alliance, drives, propagates and attempts to dominate the Sunni World. And they use the Salafi-Wahhabi extremists, to achieve their objective. Whether it be in Afghanistan (Al-Qaeda), Pakistan (Salafi-Wahhabi influence of money & preachers), North-West Africa (Boko Haram, Libyan tribals), Caucus Mountain Region (Chechens). The Saudi-Qatari's band of Salafi-Wahhabis are well funded, supported and exported to the corners of the Islamic World.

A glimpse at the extent of Saudi-Qatari hatred for Iranian Mullah Regime. Gaza and it's plight. Because Gaza is controlled by Hamas. The Saudi-Qataris remain silent even when 2000 Palestinians have been slaughtered. And if they have voiced their concerns, it has not been loud enough for the mainstream media to cover. The reason? Well Hamas has been supported by the Iranian Mullah Regime. Be it via Hezbollah in Lebanon. Or by other means. But it is sufficiently evident that Hamas has been supported by the Iranian Mullah Regime. Which is why, the Saudi-Qataris, would not show any interest or protest on the Gaza bombing by israel.

The Saudis and more recently Qataris, are becoming increasingly aggressive in their drive to weaken and/or defeat the Iranian Mullah Regime's influence in the Middle East. Which is why they have attempted to arm themselves with western military hardware. Be it Qatar, Emirates, Arabia or Oman. All are continuing to arm and rearm themselves with the latest western military hardware. And although it is good for business for the West. What is not good, is that they use this as a tool to influence West's foreign policy. The same is with Iran, which though not as aggressive in it's spending for military hardware from Russia. Uses the Russian Federation as a tool to fulfill their own objectives.

This observation leads one to the conclusion, that the great powers, although powerful. Are missing the big picture! They are being lured into a false sense of control, when in reality, it is the Saudis and Iranian Mullahs, who're exercising their influence to shape the future of the Middle East.

I have witnessed, first hand, the savagery and illiteracy of Salafi-Wahhabi propagators in my own home town of Parachinar. The shrewd way they have used their wealth, their claim to knowledge on the entirety of Islam, their ridiculous responses to anyone who challenged them in using their wealth to help the local people with development, security and harmony. In the 1980s, they wanted to be seen as the saviors of Afghanistan with their wealth in funding arms for the Mujahideen. In the 1990s, they wanted to infiltrate the ranks of the Mujahideen and stand at the helm of power among the Pukhtuns of both Pakistan and Afghanistan.

They have attempted to instill the same hatred of Shi'ites among Pukhtuns, as they have themselves. You have no idea, how rapidly they proliferated within Khyber province of Pakistan. They have used their money to build Madrassas (schools to teach the Holy Qur'aan), under whose guise they radicalize the young. They have bought, bribed or threatened tribes in the Pak-Afghan region, to silence any who are subversive. And this trend has gone on for decades. The price for which, both Pakistan and Afghanistan are paying today.

The one thing that has stood true to this day, about the Salafi-Wahhabi/Saudi-Qataris, is their ruthless, unrelenting, savage hatred for the Shi'ite/Persian/Iranian/Alawite section of the Islamic World. This phenomenon about the Saudi-Qatari/Salafi-Wahhabis, has stood the test of time and is showing it's true colors, today.

Irrespective what the mainstream media would tell you and have either ignored or not focused on. That the menace enveloping Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza and Afghanistan. Is the hatred between the Iranian Mullah Regime and the Saudi-Qatari/Salafi-Wahhabi nexus.

ISIS, or ISIL, or IS, or whatever you want to dress it up as, is factually, an effort, an idea, a tool. Which is developed, harnessed, supported and used by the Saudi-Qatari axis, to stifle, extinguish Iranian Mullah Regime's influence and reach in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Gaza. While Syria-Iraq-Lebanon is being used by the Iranian Mullah Regime, to exact influence and control over the areas surrounding israel. In order to portray to the 2 billion Muslims on this planet, that they are the who will rid the Islamic World of israel.

Both parties, are phonies, fake and not true representatives of the Islamic World. Both are quietly and audibly, working behind the scenes to achieve their objective of dominating the Islamic World. Neither has any respect for Islam, what it stands for. And both are using Islam, hijacking to achieve their objectives. They do not care for the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims being killed, slaughtered and maimed. Nor do they care for basic humanity of the world.
 
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Zool

Junior Member
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

Ridiculous. Assad didn't touch ISIS because he was too busy fighting the FSA and the other al-qaida affiliated army.

I'd go so far as to say the Syrian Government did not have the luxury of choice in whom they fought. The first few months saw the Syrian Army on the defensive and losing ground. Civilian casualties and the introduction of ISIS and it's brutal tactics actually cemented support for Assad and his Alawite - Christian - Shiite Coalition. But the objective has been to secure the country and regain territory, not pick a fight with FSA over ISIS. As you say, a bit silly.

ISIS having suffered serious setbacks in Syria is now trying it's hand in Iraq, where it has a much better chance to divide and conquer the fractious country. There is much less chance of factions unifying under the Central Government in Iraq as happened in Syria. US intervention was the only option and the outcome is still unclear on the ground. But were it my call I would have begun the airstrikes when originally requested by Al-Maliki. Launching operations weeks later when ISIS began putting pressure on the Kurds sent, to me at least, a message that the US administration did not give much value to Shiite interests but greater concern to Kurdish stability and holdings in the country.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

very interesting read indeed, thanks.
One thing that jumpes to my mind, though

... by the Iranian Mullah Regime on one side. With their influence reaching toward the Uzbek/Farsiban faction in the East (Afghanistan) and the Alawite/Hezbollah/Hamas allies in the West

I've always run around thinking Hams, being an offshoot of the egyptian muslim brotherhood would be in the Saudi/Quatari league.

The big players in SA / Quatar certainly know how to play their cards towards all sides. And while they certainly contributed - especially in the syrian civil war - to the initial rise of what now calls itself IS, I wonder how much influence they actually retain, or even ever had.
In these situations money safeguards a lot of influence. However, from really early on, IS have been pretty darn rich themselves. They are certainly by far the most well financed terror (or what ever they are) organisation we ever saw, they did a lot of that on their own. So, I think they're really running their very own agenda, because they really can.

All of that, plus their being an almost state like entity, perhaps makes them an easier target in a symmetrical confrontaion.
 

Franklin

Captain
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

People forget that Assad regime didn't lift a finger against IS when IS was killing anti-Assad rebels, but now everyone should join with Assad? What a joke. Let the Islamic State maul Syrian army and NDF for now.

Anyhow, if these new figures are true Islamic State won't be destroyed from the air.

Islamic State 'has 50,000 fighters in Syria'

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This sort of massacres make sure that moderate Sunnis are going to support Islamic State too in future.


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I very much doubt that ISIS has 50,000 fighters just in Syria. If that was the case then al-Assad will be crapping in his pants by now. As for al-Assad not lifting a finger when ISIS was fighting the FSA. Why should he ? His enemies are killing each other why should he help either one or the other ? They both wanted him gone if not dead. At this point the issue is not rather or not to side with al-Assad. The issue is you can't have a policy were you are bombing ISIS in Iraq on the one hand while strengthening ISIS in Syria on the other hand. That's a illogical and self defeating strategy. It seems to me that the Americans are planning to escalate their operations against ISIS into Syria.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

I've always run around thinking Hams, being an offshoot of the egyptian muslim brotherhood would be in the Saudi/Quatari league.

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In these situations money safeguards a lot of influence. However, from really early on, IS have been pretty darn rich themselves. They are certainly by far the most well financed terror (or what ever they are) organisation we ever saw, they did a lot of that on their own. So, I think they're really running their very own agenda, because they really can.

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Broccoli

Senior Member
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

Yesterday pro-government sources reported that Syrian army soldiers killed hundreds of Islamic State fighters (didn't show any proof) and pursued them away from the airbase, but today news tell different story and there has been few pics posted by IS whats shows their fighters inside or at least very near the base.

Islamic State fighters broke through the defenses of a major military air base in northeastern Syria on Sunday, seizing control of at least part of a facility that is the last government-held outpost in an area dominated by the extremist group, activists said.

The Islamic State group launched its long-anticipated offensive last week to seize the sprawling Tabqa air field, located some 45 kilometers (25 miles) from the extremists' powerbase in the city of Raqqa. The air base is one of the most significant government military facilities in the area, containing several warplane squadrons, helicopters, tanks, artillery and ammunition.

After several failed efforts to breach the facility's walls in recent days, Islamic State fighters managed to punch through and storm the air field Sunday, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

The Muslim extremists captured at least part of the base, while fighting raged for the remaining sections still in the military's hands, the Observatory said, adding that government warplanes were conducting airstrikes against the attacking forces.

The Observatory said at least 100 Islamic State group fighters have been killed and 300 wounded in the fighting for the base. It put regime dead at 25.

Another activist group, the Local Coordination Committees, says the jihadis have taken full control of the airfield.
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delft

Brigadier
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

According to news on the website of my favorite radio station the Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has visited Baghdad to talk with the next Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi about acting together against IS.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
Re: 2014 ISIS attack in Iraq: News, Views, Photos, Videos

That is purely your opinion.

But you were not there fighting Al Qaida (which is what ISIS is in a revamped form), or defeating them

The US military devised successful tactics in working with the tribal leaders and enlisting their help, with Iraqi forces intimately involved, to defeat the terrorists.

This clearly worked. I have linked on these boards to the white paper, developed by the US military, that was the basis for this I victory.

THAT is what the Iraqi forces were trained to do.

But a political leadership came in in Iraq that had no interest in working in that manner with the trial leaders, who removed the Iraqi Army leaders who had been trained in that fashion.

The result was that they were losing. Obama was correct in insisting that that political leadership be removed.

But the training was not only correct...it is proven in defeating these very terrorists and it will work again if employed.

I'm sorry Jeff, but facts on the ground are a bit different .

First, we have Kurdish Peshmerga, essentially self-organized force, existing since 60's . US did supply some weapons and maybe some training but it didn't organize them .

Second, we have Shia militias, again either self-organized or backed by Iran .

Third, we have Sunni militias, some of them supplied by US, and some of them become allies of ISIS .

Fourth, we have Iraqi Army: modeled, organized, supplied and trained by US .

Considering what has transpired, I would say that from the above list Iraqi Army is least combat effective force. Yes, it is just my opinion , but I cannot forget scene where around 100 Iraqi soldiers (completely armed, with uniforms, helmets and rifles) surrender to a group of no more then 40 ISIS fighters, and then they are lead away and slaughtered like sheep, without offering any resistance .

I don't know whom did those soldiers support on Iraqi political scene (Maliki or someone else) , or did they trust their officers. But letting themselves getting killed like that - there is something deeply wrong in basic training of Iraqi riflemen if they cannot at least use their weapons to save themselves and closest buddies around them .
 
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