Is the PRC suppling Iraqi insurgents?

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sinowarrior

Junior Member
AssassinsMace said:
Sounds like one of those convenient excuses after something embarrassing happens. I think some still use that excuse to explain why no WMDs were found in Iraq. They went to Syria or Iran.
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not much an excuse, since someone i know was involved in the entire deal, and it was quit funny to have this result in the end. nonetheless the intention was clear, sell chemicals to iran, but of course not for weapon purpose but for making dye....

it is still likely weapons can be smuggled to Iraq or Afgan, without knowledge from the big bosses, and in the end chinese government got the blame for it.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
sinowarrior said:
not much an excuse, since someone i know was involved in the entire deal, and it was quit funny to have this result in the end. nonetheless the intention was clear, sell chemicals to iran, but of course not for weapon purpose but for making dye....

it is still likely weapons can be smuggled to Iraq or Afgan, without knowledge from the big bosses, and in the end chinese government got the blame for it.
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Really? From what end was the person you know involved. Because if it's the US side then that doesn't tell anything.

But this thread is about China directly knowing and aiding terrorists. That's a big difference. The US gave the Taliban a whole lot of money right before 9-11. So the US aided terrorists if it can be said that China associated with the Taliban before to which was one of the arguments China aids terrorism.

How about the reports that some Western countries aided Saddam in producing chemical weapons? Bush declared Saddam a terrorist, ergo, doesn't that mean the West is in league with terrorism? Saddam actually used his chemical weapons. So who's worse?

If there were proof that China knowingly aids terrorism against the US, why hasn't the US governement acted? The only ones that spread such propaganda are the ones that have anti-China agendas long before. China is one issue both Republicans and Democrats can be united against yet they do nothing. Bush was setting up a showdown with China before 9-11 as the story about Cheny telling the Taiwanese to declare independence so a war would get started with China shows.

Plus many who believe in the propaganda go by the notion everyone else is stupid. So if these dumb idiot "terrorists" have the capability to knock out the high tech Goliath's toys, they must be getting help from someone up the chain. So of course they're going to by default try to blame China. But then China too can't do anything that requires intelligence either according to them. The smell of desperation and arrogance that comes with inconsistency. This is a huge case of denial at work here to is why the believers in the propaganda are always angry trying to look for someone else to blame for their failures.
 
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sinowarrior

Junior Member
AssassinsMace said:
Really? From what end was the person you know involved. Because if it's the US side then that doesn't tell anything.
why hasn't the US governement acted
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well the guy was a close relative of mine who used to oversee this kind of matter in china i.e weapon sales and purchase. as for aiding terriorist, i think china did aid talban during soviet invasion of afgan, but not against USA though.

why hasn't the US governement acted,this is pure politics, one example is US found out china smuggled heavy water and the end user was north korea, but at least they did not act publicly. It is actully to serve any propaganda purpose but governments try to avoid leak such information to the public, otherwise some of the deals when heard by the public, will be extremly damaging to US and China government alike.
 
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
sinowarrior said:
AssassinsMace said:
Really? From what end was the person you know involved. Because if it's the US side then that doesn't tell anything.
why hasn't the US governement acted
QUOTE]

well the guy was a close relative of mine who used to oversee this kind of matter in china i.e weapon sales and purchase. as for aiding terriorist, i think china did aid talban during soviet invasion of afgan, but not against USA though.

why hasn't the US governement acted,this is pure politics, one example is US found out china smuggled heavy water and the end user was north korea, but at least they did not act publicly. It is actully to serve any propaganda purpose but governments try to avoid leak such information to the public, otherwise some of the deals when heard by the public, will be extremly damaging to US and China government alike.
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We already know China aided the Afghan rebels who are now the Taliban because the US paid for the Chinese arms which was shipped to Pakistan then handed to the Afghan rebels so it wouldn't look like the US was involved. Big hypocrisy at pointing the finger at China for aiding terrorists and especially when the US started shipping high-tech Stingers to be used against the Soviets.

In regards to the North Koreans... China doesn't have to smuggle. The only embargo was by Western nations and not by international law. And plus again we're going by the notion that everyone else is stupid. Before the Wen Ho Lee scandal, most Americans didn't even know that China had nuclear weapons. I would hear many, from avergae citizens to public figures, say things like, "If China ever got the bomb, they would start WWIII." And if I was there, I'd tell them China has had the bomb since 1964! Some that know that say the Soviets gave the Chinese the bomb. But then that was one of the reason why there was the Sino-Soviet split because they were dragging their feet on the promise of giving China the bomb. So what makes it so unique for only "certain" people that can make a nuke let alone have the intelligence to put one together on their own. China did it. Why not anyone else?
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sinowarrior

Junior Member
AssassinsMace said:
In regards to the North Koreans... China doesn't have to smuggle. The only embargo was by Western nations and not by international law. And plus again we're going by the notion that everyone else is stupid. Before the Wen Ho Lee scandal, most Americans didn't even know that China had nuclear weapons. I would hear many, from avergae citizens to public figures, say things like, "If China ever got the bomb, they would start WWIII." And if I was there, I'd tell them China has had the bomb since 1964! Some that know that say the Soviets gave the Chinese the bomb. But then that was one of the reason why there was the Sino-Soviet split because they were dragging their feet on the promise of giving China the bomb. So what makes it so unique for only "certain" people that can make a nuke let alone have the intelligence to put one together on their own. China did it. Why not anyone else?
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But the offical line was not to export heavy water or any nuke stuff to North Korea, and from i heard, the heavy water was smuggled and sold to a german agent/company, and the german sold those water to Nkorea. as for export weapons to potential terrorist, the most likely chance is the weapon was not sold with the approval of CONSTIND, but through other third parties. a head nodding from some minister is enough to sell/smuggle weapons overseas.

as for propaganda ......well that happens, it is pure politics, china is attacking US, US is attacking China, dog bites dog, but there is some truth in those accusations.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
sinowarrior said:
But the offical line was not to export heavy water or any nuke stuff to North Korea, and from i heard, the heavy water was smuggled and sold to a german agent/company, and the german sold those water to Nkorea. as for export weapons to potential terrorist, the most likely chance is the weapon was not sold with the approval of CONSTIND, but through other third parties. a head nodding from some minister is enough to sell/smuggle weapons overseas.

as for propaganda ......well that happens, it is pure politics, china is attacking US, US is attacking China, dog bites dog, but there is some truth in those accusations.
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Sounds like one big confusing mess. If the Germans smuggled, then that's their fault and not China's. When you see weapons in possession of armies and terrorists around the world, they're mostly Western or Soviet/Russian and not Chinese.
 
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sinowarrior

Junior Member
AssassinsMace said:
Sounds like one big confusing mess. If the Germans smuggled, then that's their fault and not China's. When you see weapons in possession of armies and terrorists around the world, they're mostly Western or Soviet/Russian and not Chinese.
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true, it was a company registered in germany that acted as the medium between the chinese side and potential buyers. i always have a feeling that those shadow companies' operation are far more extensive and complicated than most of people realized, china did optain quite few different types of weapon system from oversea, and those those medium companies were invloved, yet in the end it was the chinese or Israli or the russian that got blamed.
 
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challenge

Banned Idiot
AssassinsMace said:
There were claims that Iran was supplying arms to the insurgency in general. So Iran supplies the enemy, Sunni, in the civil war against their team, the Shiite. Remember that large cache of high grade explosives found then a couple days later all disappeared in that bunker in the beginning of the war? Iraq then was described as one giant bunker. Weapons can be found everywhere. Now all the sudden the insurgency needs Iran for all there IEDs?

Speaking before of the geo-politics of the region... Iran is not friendly with Pakistan who back the Taliban. So Iran supplies both the Sunni who they fought a long war and the Taliban who are allied with their enemy Pakistan? Why not look at the Saudis? They have said they will back the Sunni against the Iranian backed Shiite. Are they getting another pass since the majority of the 9-11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.

Of course this is for the consumption of the voters. Damn reality and common sense! Who cares about these differences when the universe only operates in black and white. "If you're not for me then you must be against me."
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it was reveal that back in early of 2003, iran offer grand bargain with the US,include the support for comprehensive middle east peace .restoration of US iranian diplomatic tied,and most iran nuke issue.
but the neo con such as AEI,and cheney are far more interest in "regime change" reject the idea,despite the fact the CIA anaysis claim muhadeen has little or no support even in iran itself. and the US refusal to hand over Khar(?) mujahadeen back to iran.
giving this, iran are not going sit down and suffer similiar fate like serbia or iraq.they going response.
George Soros is correct,when he said that neo con think tank AEI is "complete disaster for the israel ,disaster for the US".
 
F

fishhead

Banned Idiot
challenge said:
it was reveal that back in early of 2003, iran offer grand bargain with the US,include the support for comprehensive middle east peace .restoration of US iranian diplomatic tied,and most iran nuke issue.
but the neo con such as AEI,and cheney are far more interest in "regime change" reject the idea,despite the fact the CIA anaysis claim muhadeen has little or no support even in iran itself. and the US refusal to hand over Khar(?) mujahadeen back to iran.
giving this, iran are not going sit down and suffer similiar fate like serbia or iraq.they going response.
George Soros is correct,when he said that neo con think tank AEI is "complete disaster for the israel ,disaster for the US".
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It's quite a strange feeling today when you see US publicly praise North Korea's "full cooperation", only after they set off the bomb.

The whole world learn a lesson from it, including Iran.
 
F

fishhead

Banned Idiot
I think the fundamental difference btwn American and Chinese today, is much like the difference btwn British and American, around WW2 time. American is against colonial system, and British is for it at that time - American supported self-determination of different countries. Today Chinese goes even further step, against interfere into domestic affaire of different countries.

That difference hasn't gone to the stage Chinese actively supports to erode American effort around the world - and I doubt it will ever go that far. British fought two wars for their colonial right, and finally gave up. American are fighting wars for their interferism right, and run into wall. But NK and Iran show the sign of the trend. I think today Chinese are smart enough to watch and wait for outcome of these wars - if they believe non-interferism is the trend, then it will come with or without their involvement.

There are many evil people around the world, you may hate them. But as long as they stop doing evil or don't expand that evil, that's fine. Trying to remove the evil may end up with more evil things.
 
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