Instead of just Upgrades, and about the future flankers

trkl · Oct 24, 2005

J-11 has a bigger nose than J-10, which means that it can use a larger radar antenna. If we assume that the technology in klj-4 is at least as good as the technology in klj-3, then klj-4 will deffinately have better performance, with a longer range.

Chairman Hu · Oct 24, 2005

tphuang said:
Tell me you are kidding. Where did you even get the idea that J-11B will be an air superiority fighter? Superior to what? According to all report, it will have the a2a capability of mkk series. J-11B should start joining service soon (like in 2006/7), because the test flights with WS-10A have already been done. Here is basically what J-11B is:
1. based on the airframe of 27 and mkk
2. using WS-10A as its engine. It won't use AL-41F1, because J-11B is supposed to be all domestic
3. With the extra thrust, it will be able to carry more payload, therefore, it will be better suited for attacking missions.
4. As for avionics, the cockpit should be similar in all Chinese planes now. It should be decent. We don't know about the jamming or anti-jamming capability of the Chinese avionics. Radar is the biggest issue here. KLJ-4 should be similar in capability to KLJ-3. From what I can see, the most advanced Chinese radars are not as good as the Russian ones. If they really are PAR like some people have claimed, then they will be better than I expected.

As for al-41F1, the reason it was developed was that it was easier to expand the thrust of AL-31F rather than going straight to the specs of AL-41F. From all specs, it looks quite impressive. And let's not forget, it's 3D TVC.

As for su-35BM, it doesn't have canard, but it has other features that makes it extremely manuverable. If Zhuk-mfe is offered with su-35bm, then that would definitely be a really good radar.

1. Tell me YOU gotta be kidding! There is no way China is gonna built the plane based on the MKK and SK, where did you get THAT idea
2. Where did I get the idea of air superiority? well gee itz still gonna be J-11, not H-11 or Q-11, even if itz multi-role, it still can do well in the air
3. Superior to what? whats that suppose to mean? it means for the plane to achieve ground over the airspace youre in

dont you think the J-11B will based itself on the Su-32FN if it was suppose to be an attack plane?

tphuang · Oct 24, 2005

trkl said:
J-11 has a bigger nose than J-10, which means that it can use a larger radar antenna. If we assume that the technology in klj-4 is at least as good as the technology in klj-3, then klj-4 will deffinately have better performance, with a longer range.

That's what you assume should happen, but it's not the case. KLJ-3 was developed first, so that everything is optimized to be packed in that size. Large area doesn't necessarily translate to better performance. For example, the performance of Zhuk-me and Zhemchug are similar in ranges and such, but Zhuk-me is for su-27 class fighters whereas zhemchug is for mig-29 class fighters.

tphuang · Oct 24, 2005

Chairman Hu said:
1. Tell me YOU gotta be kidding! There is no way China is gonna built the plane based on the MKK and SK, where did you get THAT idea

can you read Chinese? I will give you analysis to back me up on this. If not based on MKK and sk, what do you think J-11B is based on then?

2. Where did I get the idea of air superiority? well gee itz still gonna be J-11, not H-11 or Q-11, even if itz multi-role, it still can do well in the air

As I have said in the past, the best A2A fighter in PLAAF is J-10. Even according to the Chinese analysts, J-11B only has 30-40% advantage in combat over sk and probably almost reached mkks.

3. Superior to what? whats that suppose to mean? it means for the plane to achieve ground over the airspace youre in

dont you think the J-11B will based itself on the Su-32FN if it was suppose to be an attack plane?

superiority over which plane? su-27sk? sure, but that's outdated.

No, J-11B will be a multi-role plane like mkk not a dedicated attacker like the fullback. If J-11B is like su-32FN, we would not even need JH-7A anymore.

trkl · Oct 24, 2005

I think that Zhuk-me is actually for mig-29 and zhemchug was intended for j-10.

Large area does give better performance, if it did not they would just use klj-3 in the j-11 and not change the size of the antenna.

tphuang · Oct 24, 2005

trkl said:
I think that Zhuk-me is actually for mig-29 and zhemchug was intended for j-10.

Large area does give better performance, if it did not they would just use klj-3 in the j-11 and not change the size of the antenna.

because of the weapon selection, integration with the system and a bunch of other reasons. I think you'd probably want KLJ-4 to have better A2G radar sensoring capabilities than KLJ-3.

This is what someone mentionned on CDF a while back, not sure how accurate this is:
"Currently, speaking about avionics and radar, here's the ranks from chinese sources: J10A>J11B>J11A/Su30MKK>J8IIF>Su27. I don't know how accurate this is, but it seems to be true cause even SAC's supporters admitted that even J11B is slightly inferior to J10A. Although J11B has the potential to install larger radar and bigger components, SAC decided to choose a cautious way to only use those ones tested on J10. It's not a bad idea to me, but many chinese fans are pissed off."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is pretty much the sense I get too from reading all the Chinese sites, that KLJ-4 is about the same as KLJ-3.

MIGleader · Oct 25, 2005

tphuang said:
can you read Chinese? I will give you analysis to back me up on this. If not based on MKK and sk, what do you think J-11B is based on then?

As I have said in the past, the best A2A fighter in PLAAF is J-10. Even according to the Chinese analysts, J-11B only has 30-40% advantage in combat over sk and probably almost reached mkks.

superiority over which plane? su-27sk? sure, but that's outdated.

No, J-11B will be a multi-role plane like mkk not a dedicated attacker like the fullback. If J-11B is like su-32FN, we would not even need JH-7A anymore.

better than mkk? the only advantage an mkk has over a su-27 inb a2a is the r-77, and a number of j-11s have already been modified to carry r-77.

china is definitly planning to fit the sd-10 on the plane and stop using so many russian missles.

hu, the j-11b is likely an air superiority fighter with a secondary attack role, similar to the mig-29. china may already be developing a dedicated attacker based on the su-32/34.

rankings:
mkk2
mkk
j-11b
j-11a with r-77
j-10
su-27

Chairman Hu · Oct 25, 2005

MIGleader said:
hu, the j-11b is likely an air superiority fighter with a secondary attack role, similar to the mig-29. china may already be developing a dedicated attacker based on the su-32/34.

rankings:
mkk2
mkk
j-11b
j-11a with r-77
j-10
su-27

1.) MiG-29SMT? Su-27SKM? ahahah yea sry, forgot that China IS building a attack plane based on the 32/34
2.) Those rankings, ya know, the J-11B SHOULD be above the MKK2 though, it isnt like China going to built something inferior, and by the time it enters service, itz equipments are better and also... didnt the J-11B mockup version carry anti-ship missiles?

trkl · Oct 25, 2005

Chairman Hu said:
1.) MiG-29SMT? Su-27SKM? ahahah yea sry, forgot that China IS building a attack plane based on the 32/34

Are we sure that China is building a plane based on Su-32/34? Isn't that just specualtion?

MIGleader · Oct 25, 2005

trkl said:
Are we sure that China is building a plane based on Su-32/34? Isn't that just specualtion?

i guess it is, but newspaper pics and articles from china seem to claim this.

Instead of just Upgrades, and about the future flankers

trkl

New Member

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot

tphuang

Lieutenant General

tphuang

Lieutenant General

trkl

New Member

tphuang

Lieutenant General

MIGleader

Banned Idiot

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot

trkl

New Member

MIGleader

Banned Idiot