Instead of just Upgrades, and about the future flankers

the blackjack really isnt, cuz the B-2 is (most tactical bomber in the world).

Yea i agree, it really wouldnt be funny if that thing got shot by the Patriot missile defence system, or just 10 S-300s coming after it

Sea dog:
I agree with you too, the Su-33 (Su-27K) DOES have carnads are the Su-35 is a powerful plane to be base on the J-11B/C, the elec equip from the Su-35BM can attack ground, a copied version with a naval attack mode added can save time for China, I really dont wanna see China flying planes of the Su-35BM class in 10 years when the T-50(?) and the JSF are backing other planes like the Raptor and China has a J-11B with only a J-XX, thats good but... THE JSF is there, if China REALLY works hard on this, China can get it out in 5 years, with or w/o TVC engines, why reinvent the wheel, if everything has a base to start with, it will save China YEARS, or like I said earlier, how about a license production of the Su-35BM as the J-11B in about 250ish numbered

Sea Dog said:

Does this mean they will be incorporating Su-35 "technology" into pre-existing J-11 airframes? That would be interesting. Or will they be buying Su-35's outright from Russia. If they are able to buy it, that should open up doors for PLAN to acquire Su-33's for future carrier ops.

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no, Sukhoi is already loosing out a lot from the indigenization of J-11B. If Su-35 is getting sold to China, it will most likely be sold outright. Even so, China will probably get it if it's not overly expensive. Unlike su-27/mkk, the parts on Su-35 are better than anything China produces right now:
1. The AL-41F1 engine will have at least a thrust of 14.5 tonnes + 3D TVC, all China has is WS-10A
2. If Zhuk-mfe or irbis is used, then that will be better than anything China has in the radar department. Although, I personally expect the Chinese and Russian radar industry to be at the same level soon.
3. China currently doesn't even have a long range AAM, the Novator AAM would be deadly against AWACS and transports.

chian will probably order in batches, each batch specialised for a specific mission. sukoi obviously wants to please china with a good fighter to get more buys out of china. when j-xx comes out, the flankers and j-10s will still have alot of life in them. dont retire tham yet!!

The Zergling,

The Blackjack is in no way obsolete, in fact it is the Russian "Big Stick" and will be for the forseeable future. The Blackjack can fly both high speed attack missions as well as Hi-Lo-Hi missions in wich it penetrates enemy airspace at high level before making a low level supersonic attack run and egressing again at high level. It carries the largest warload of any combat aircraft the longest distance with the best chance of survival. If It was to carry its full warload of 18 Kh-15 Nuclear tipped cruise missiles with a 3000km range it would be able to obliterate all the major west coast U.S. cities and at no stage come any closer than 500km from the U.S. coast. All it would need is a mid-air refuelling in the mid pacific on the way there and another on the way back. You cant honestly tell me that this is an obsolete aircraft flying an obsolete mission.

tphuang said:

no, Sukhoi is already loosing out a lot from the indigenization of J-11B. If Su-35 is getting sold to China, it will most likely be sold outright. Even so, China will probably get it if it's not overly expensive. Unlike su-27/mkk, the parts on Su-35 are better than anything China produces right now:
1. The AL-41F1 engine will have at least a thrust of 14.5 tonnes + 3D TVC, all China has is WS-10A
2. If Zhuk-mfe or irbis is used, then that will be better than anything China has in the radar department. Although, I personally expect the Chinese and Russian radar industry to be at the same level soon.
3. China currently doesn't even have a long range AAM, the Novator AAM would be deadly against AWACS and transports.

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That suck, if China cant base the J-11B on the Su-35BM, what other fighter? the Su-27? the Su-30? even China stopped the purchase of those...

Question now is: Maybe if the Su-35BM is a purchase, will China cancel the J-11B project, go back and upgrade the J-10 and focus on that and the J-XX?

Well, for the engine and radars, it CAN be a breakthrough that might be something China needs for the J-XX, that or an upgrade version, the AL-41F sounds very tempting...!

Chairman Hu said:

That suck, if China cant base the J-11B on the Su-35BM, what other fighter? the Su-27? the Su-30? even China stopped the purchase of those...

Question now is: Maybe if the Su-35BM is a purchase, will China cancel the J-11B project, go back and upgrade the J-10 and focus on that and the J-XX?

Well, for the engine and radars, it CAN be a breakthrough that might be something China needs for the J-XX, that or an upgrade version, the AL-41F sounds very tempting...!

Click to expand...

cancel j-11b? never. the chinese have 95 more flankers to build, and they dont plan to waste their money. china has already singned an al-41 deal, specifically for j-xx. china may want to use the su-35s as attackers to use with the mkks.

WTF?!?!? Su-35BM as an attacker!?!? whats the point, the J-10B can do that, Id rather use it and the 12 missiles it is armed with to crush all opposition in the air, the AL-41F is a fine engine for this mission and itz new elec equip will assist it further! NO WAY China will use THAT as an attack plane, if China wanted it as an attack plane, China would get finish the license as the MKK except China will built it as their version but able to fire Chinese munnitions.

95 more? I thought China stopped AT 95 so China should have 105 to built

even some reports said China built 48 at 2003 and 48 more at 2004...

anyone need a link to that report?

Chairman Hu said:

WTF?!?!? Su-35BM as an attacker!?!? whats the point, the J-10B can do that, Id rather use it and the 12 missiles it is armed with to crush all opposition in the air, the AL-41F is a fine engine for this mission and itz new elec equip will assist it further! NO WAY China will use THAT as an attack plane, if China wanted it as an attack plane, China would get finish the license as the MKK except China will built it as their version but able to fire Chinese munnitions.

95 more? I thought China stopped AT 95 so China should have 105 to built

even some reports said China built 48 at 2003 and 48 more at 2004...

anyone need a link to that report?

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some corrections: j-10b is a two seated j-10, used for training. the j-10 never had an extensive a2g ability nyways, not close to the mkks.

a two seater su-35 bm could be requested without tvc, and with a slightly different avionics suite for ground attack. sukhoi realized the mkk disapointed china, and would be willing to put terrific a2g abilities on the su-35 to sell.

a sepereate version with tvc and bvr could be requested to be used as a frontline air superiority fighter until j-xx comes out.

no one knows exactly how many j-11s china has, but its around 100. the
j-11b project is merely an upgradew for a somewhat old fighter.

wow im beat... again...

well by theory speaking, the J-10B is best for A2G and the AL-41F SHOULD come with the Su-35BM, I mean sure, the plane can be for ground attack, but isnt it better with the license finished as the MKK and get Su-35BM to back them up?

or....

you are right, let the J-11B be the air superiority fighter and Su-35BM (w/o TVC) be used for ground attack

err I see what you mean now....

so sry

BTW, anyone got any idea what the J-11B should be based on, Im kinda doubting the Su-35BM now...

Chairman Hu said:

wow im beat... again...

well by theory speaking, the J-10B is best for A2G and the AL-41F SHOULD come with the Su-35BM, I mean sure, the plane can be for ground attack, but isnt it better with the license finished as the MKK and get Su-35BM to back them up?

or....

you are right, let the J-11B be the air superiority fighter and Su-35BM (w/o TVC) be used for ground attack

err I see what you mean now....

so sry

BTW, anyone got any idea what the J-11B should be based on, Im kinda doubting the Su-35BM now...

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i think j-11b is a simiar style upgrade to the su-27skm concept offered by russia. the chinese obviously choose to go with a more indegedous radar and engines. the ws-10a and klj-3 radar are to be fitted, i believe. im also the j-11s get a new ecm and avionics refit. russian avionics are really not user frinedly.