Instead of just Upgrades, and about the future flankers

Thank you for that informative reply, but I do wonder on one thing.

If some pilots call them "pieces of crap", what exactly are they whining about?

On paper, the MKK and MK2s seems good enough. Is there some kind of production error on the Chinese batch, or is it just something about the overall quality the Russian built them with?

Gauntlet said:

Thank you for that informative reply, but I do wonder on one thing.

If some pilots call them "pieces of crap", what exactly are they whining about?

On paper, the MKK and MK2s seems good enough. Is there some kind of production error on the Chinese batch, or is it just something about the overall quality the Russian built them with?

Click to expand...

The problem with MKK stems mainly from the quality of these planes:
1. The A2A combat ability really didn't improve too much from su-27sk. There was a slight upgrade in radar in terms of detection range and target tracking, but the radar was still not even slotted array. The only major improvement is the ability to fire R-77.
2. The A2G ability is supposed to be the money maker of the mkk/mk2s. However, that did not get delivered as expected. If you know about the SAPSAN-E pod problem. The Russians took so long to develop it, that China developed its own pod. Another issue is that it cannot launch any of the Chinese AShM or LACMs.

..................................................

Okie this is the reason why I didnt put the MKKs here, the MKK was to replace or serve along with the Q-5 in attack missions and hold power to defend themselves in the air with the R-77, and the MKK2 is for martime patrol... SO PLZ NO MORE MKK/2 TALKS!ff

Look Gauntlet, if you don't have faith in Chinese weapons, I can't blame you, this is the period of time where China is still behind, in comparison to the Americans, Russians, or just the Europeans, of course China's indigious weapon production suck, I admit it, right now, China's weapons aren't that great since they use to follow too much of another country's design, in many cases, Russian. Can you at least give us the benefit of the doubt, I mean, we at least deserve that right? China is moving out of that "follower" era and already building weapons by her own tech, not with someone's help. Also, China has been frozen for over 20 years or so, you should be surprised on how well China is recovering.:coffee:

Back on topic...
If China can get far enough to the fullback, most likely SAC will put it this way...
J-11A - 1st line air superiority
J-11B - Air dominance with CONSIDERABLE ground attack power, but mostly AIR TO AIR
J-11C - Su-33 based to take off Chinese carriers, China's own naval flanker
J-11D - Su-32/34 based, replace all of the Q-5 and MKK

Okie to tell you the truth, the credit goes to Dongfeng, I just added on to his idea, I put the J-11B as air dominance because there could be another version SAC and modify into (like Sukhoi) for true attack mode, this is a rather of opinion, to tell you the truth, I rather have the J-10 be built all "B" modes for ground attack so there isn't a "D" mode up in my chart, or we can just cross it out and leave the J-XX as the TRUE air-superiority plane. (Since every country must have a dedicated air to air fighter)

If I can choose the frame for the plane, Id choose the Su-35 (Su-27M), the plane is said to be able for ground attack already so China can save time on that, and already can carry 14? missiles, so change the radar, other systems, and the missile codes to Chinese, and the "basic" concept is done, SAC will have to work the hard parts out...

Heres the part of interchangable parts to come into play, if a J-11B is easy built and easy modified (hopefully), we should see the other versions roll out in production around the same length of time as the Russian counterpart, maybe faster b/c China has money

okie maybe I am starting to rant a bit TOO much...

MIGleader said:

for some reson, ive seen that you dislike plaaf weapons, and dont have confidence in their abilities. are u russian? american?
the mkk looked good on paper, which is why china bough them. but the plane did not have the extensive a2g abilities china had hoped for.

there was no batch of chinese mkks, thaey were all buolt by russian, and the quality of construction was exellent(the plaaf had the airframe reinforced.).

Click to expand...

He's from Norway.

The J-11B will probably be more of a "radar plane" using primarily its radar for things. Air superiority will most likely be the #1 role with the PL-11, 12, and the SRAAMs.(PL-8 and definitely the the PL-5. They say a new SRAAM is being designed, eh?) It can commit ASM roles w/ C-801/2/Xs, and maybe ARM attacks with the YJ-91.

But its future will not be as fond as most expect. You have the the J-10 already doing the same thing(But at a shorter range most likely) while the J-XX is building built. I think it will remain with only 10 HP, but with MLU.

MKK/MK2 replacing and complementing the Q-5? Q-5's primary role was air interdiction with a secondary CAS function, not to mention the originally envisioned tactical nuclear payload delivery. MKK STILL does not have a full ground precision capability, I'm not sure about the MK2. Talking about replacing or complementing the Q-5, I think you should be looking in the direction of the WZ-10.

meh, fine, WZ-10 will be better for replacment...

The "fondness" of the PLAAF's future is poor because we arent in the time period to decide, the J-11 and the J-10 is equivalent to the Su-27 and the MiG-29 class in roles, heavy fighter and light fighter.

In my opinion:

Jian-11.) You have the version A, a copy, you will have a version B, indigious for air superiority, you'll have a version C, most likely for Naval

Jian-10.) You have the version A, single seat, and you have the version B, for training/ground attacking...

Yea China needs more attack planes, I mean it wouldnt be THAT hard for the later Jian-11Bs, I mean the original motto of the American Eagle was "Not a pound for the ground" and look at the Strike Eagle.

The Su-30MKK cant fire chinese weapons and also, itz not dedicated enough, It should be more PURE ground but retains the ability to fire the R-77 for self-defence, errr....

Coptors wont cut it, the A-10, the F-15E, and the F-117 are some of the most efficient machine in this world for ground attack. If China can turn a future Jian-11 into a Su-34 class plane (ground/naval) that should fill some gaps for the time being

man, if they just spent some money on a new jh-7 engine, it would work. imgina a powerful jh-7 wit sd-10. that would be a great attacker.

RIGHT ON!!!

welll China wont, if China did, then the thing woulda have the AL-31F

BUT NO!!!

CHINA WONT!

So we sit and wait and wait and maybe the concept will be applied to a future indigious flanker

Chairman Hu said:

RIGHT ON!!!

welll China wont, if China did, then the thing woulda have the AL-31F

BUT NO!!!

CHINA WONT!

So we sit and wait and wait and maybe the concept will be applied to a future indigious flanker

Click to expand...

They are developing a new bomber. The reason that AL-31F is not used is because they figured it would cost too much to redesign the plane to fit that engine.

tphuang said:

They are developing a new bomber. The reason that AL-31F is not used is because they figured it would cost too much to redesign the plane to fit that engine.

Click to expand...

I read somewhere that they were interested in buying a version of the TU-22 bomber. That bomber is highly capable IMHO. Maybe they are designing one based upon that design. The TU-22 design is something I could see PLAN interested in. It has plenty of range and decent enough payload.