Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

aksha said:

from the above is true , i would say the Mig 35 is coming or perhaps the gripen
but i would put my money on the MIG35 anyway,
perhaps the only aircraft that can defeat the SU35 in its own game.
besides ELTA has offered the 2052 AESA
besides the IAF already operates Mig35

the rafale is already out in this competition , for reasons well known i.e cost
i don't know why agreed to by 36 of them, when they are floating another competiton
perhaps because bilateral relations would be harmed,
perhaps alarmed because of low availability of the SU30 MKI at that time,
now that is being rectified, it could be why the talks are slowing down again.


if they buy only 36 , it will remain a big mystery,
because just 36 fighters are difficult to maintain in the long run.
what the IAF wants from rafale is SPECTRA

EFT,
I won't comment on much
but they said they will give a 20% discount ,from the original price
if selected
disadvantage is that they have to deal with 4 countries.

the griffin comes cheap for its capability,
it won't drain the IAF coffers
but if they have the same fears about american equipment that they had last time,
the griffin gets a big question mark over its head, because the griffin is still tied to american equipment.
(remember the IAF wanted the LCA Mk2 to use EJ2000 instead of GE414)
there is a powerful gripen lobby within the ex IAF ranks.

if the IAF is willing to forget their fears about american equipment,
then the new upgraded F18 is the best option,
the latest versions are very exciting,they will cover up the weaknesses the IAF will have in electronics

F16 , i don't think it will have much of a chance , because Pakistan already has a version of it.


what adds to the confusion is that ADA will ask a foreign aircraft manufacturer to co-develop the LCA Mk2 according to comments by the Defence Minister. in the parliament.
this could be linked to the MMRCA competition
which brings the Eurocanards closer to the win.

not to mention a few rumours , that say that Mikoyan is offering the MIG1.44
as a 4.5+++ multirole fighter???

we must also remember that the SU35 is also officially on offer to India.
and from what we know the defence minister was quite interested.

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Mig 1.44 is an abandoned project, in fact J-20 seemed to have a similar planform? I would not be surprised to see the Gripen or EFT up to buy, the F-18 maybe? with the Russians playing these games, is almost as much fun as to the Indians, so the Russians will have more patience than France, as long as they can get you on the hook, that can happen at a very good price, but they deal fast and loose? no doubt this is partially to "slap" the French for those flat-tops not being delivered to the Russians?? we shall see here shortly.

Though going for a Su-35 would be akin to just buying more MKIs right away, wouldn't it? It would not adress the IAF's desire to obtain a smaller, less costly, different type fighter.
I can see the point of buying Su-35MKIs in the future to expand the Flanker fleet with the latest capabilities of that airframe. And to close the gap to FGFA. Although that would probably mean threes different sets of avionics and engines right there.

I somehow see MiG-35s as likely, being the Flankers' smaller brothers. Although if availability and maintenance costs are issues with the Flankers, I'm not sure if Fulcrums are a solution.
Then again there are MiG-29Ks already. Maybe there's room for common sourcing and perhaps a future MiG-35K.
As a cost effective, strong capability medium class fighter, I still see the Gripen (single engine) fitting the bill nicely. With the Teja Mk IIs at the low end.

Problem with Mig-35 is that it exists only on paper with few technical demonstrators that share similar fuselage with Mig-29K . In fact, Russian government acknowledged that when they ordered newly built Mig-29 SMT instead of Mig-35 . After that, no news emerged about Mig-35, so it looks like that this project is frozen .

As for Mig-29 SMT, on the first glance they could be nice cheap replacement for Mig-21 and even Mig-27 . But on the second hand this fighter is based on late 90's and early 2000's technology, with capabilities similar to existing upgraded Mig-29 UPG in Indian service . In other words, it would not bring anything new into IAF, except beefing up numbers .

I found the following on the Indradhanush 2015 excercise.

There's an aricle that essentially reports the things that have been done there and it lets the participants from both sides talk when it comes to how things went.
To me the comments from both sides sound very mutually respectfull and stressing the common learning points. While there's some normal "we are awesome" between the lines I can't see any kind of bragging like "we smashed the other side".

Anyhow, there are some really awesome pictures in it. I certainly recomment looking at them.

aksha said:

Mikhail Simonov on super manoeuverability in BVR
Simonov explains
“Super-maneuverability should be looked at as a system of maneuvers for close aerial combat. Once the pilot receives a signal that his plane is being tracked by enemy radar, the first thing he needs to do is to go vertical. While gaining altitude and losing speed the aircraft starts to disappear from the screens of radars that use the Doppler effect.
“
However, the opponent is no fool either and will counter by pitching his aircraft upward as well. By that time our plane is going vertical and its speed approaches zero. But all Doppler radars can recognise only a moving target. If the aircraft speed is zero or simply low enough to prevent the enemy radar from calculating the Doppler component, for the enemy our aircraft will disappear. He may still be able to track us visually, but he will not be able to launch a radar-guided missile (either active or semi-active), simply because the missile’ s seeker would not pick-up the target.”

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hum, I'm not sure that description is accurate at all. The standard air combat tactic to defeat doppler radar is beaming and notching. Which are horizontal maneuver, not vertical as described. The point is to diminish the closure speed or relative speed, not your actual air speed. Going vertical also remove ground clutter which can make tracking more difficult. That's as much as I know. Hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in. What you think Air Force Brat?

Scratch said:

I found the following on the Indradhanush 2015 excercise.

There's an aricle that essentially reports the things that have been done there and it lets the participants from both sides talk when it comes to how things went.
To me the comments from both sides sound very mutually respectfull and stressing the common learning points. While there's some normal "we are awesome" between the lines I can't see any kind of bragging like "we smashed the other side".

Anyhow, there are some really awesome pictures in it. I certainly recomment looking at them.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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Here ya go, the real reason and the real "tone" that was set, friendly competition that has a little room for "posturing", and that's great, you better think you can beat the other guy when you strap 25 tons of airplane to your butt, and it sounds like things were honestly fairly even up. This is about learning how to win, the Brits got to mix it up with Flankers, and the Su-30MKIs got to find out what its like to go up against a light, powerful turning little fool like the Typhoon.

I don't think the co-operation between UK and India should be blown off, as is said they share some very important values and practices, every-body wins, and the Indian jocks get to go home as heroes. Flying this type of aircraft at this level, all by yourself puts you into the "superman" category. They work very hard, and sweat buckets, no doubt there were some "glute clincher" moments, and don't think for a minute that the stakes are not "life or death", you better be on your game!

You can bet the Air Force Brat knows how to dish out "krap" to my buds, and they better be able to take it, I've had to take my share of "krap" starting with my old man??? "Baxter Bird," "he eats, he poops, and he flies", true enough, I am still part Bird Man, that friend is what make me the Air Force Brat! good show gentlemen! keep it coming!

the reason i said that Mig 35 has a chance is it because The Russians will allow it to be MKI'esd, and the Israelis already working to improve the Mig 29k, especially in electronic warfare.
ELTA 2052 AESA too is poosible.
perhaps french electronics too as compensation.

not to mention, the mirage 2000 fleet has three times the maintenance cost as the MIG 29 that the IAF uses. according to a CAG report

not to mention , when the IAF started inducting both aircraft ,they found that the Mig 29 defeated the costlier , sleeker Mirage 2000 , in compartive trials .
even in ITR and BVR , which were unexpected.

the Griffin comes second on my list because , of its commonality with the engines of the LCA ,cheaper than the other Eurocanards too.
further there is a higher chance that ADA will chose SAAB to to codevelop the LCA mk2(IAF)
SAAB has been most vocal about its interest in codeveloping the LCA mk2 if they get a share of 51% in the work.
they have even sent designs and wind tunnel models
this is one of them

looks more like a little gripen (please note , not all the numbers given above are accurate)

EFT i will put third
but there was a report from the the british ministry that the EFT won't attain all multirole capabilities before 2018, a couple of years ago.
the headache though will be dealing with 4 countries,
all of whom have different laws regarding supply of spares to a country at war.

what might take it through is the 20%discount
and the fact that EADS is workin on the LCA MK2 NAVY version
EADS had also worked extensively during the tejas developement.
they kept helping even after the pokhran tests.
this is the proposed version for the LCA NAVY mk2
now and then after EADS tinkering





the F18 is according to me third in the running,
could have been higher , if not for US policies about supplying spares to a nation at war..


it is also being said that the design bureau working on the LCA mk2 will get to work on the 5th gen AMCA.. if so SAAB will get another boost.

there are many insiders (Saurav Jha )who say that the IAF will go for the same deisgn as the NAVY LCA Mk2, because it is almost an MMRCA in its MK2 avatar.
almost Gripenish in size .
and a naval officer once told that she will be powered by the GE414 EPE, if GE engine is chosen for the AMCA, ( i am not sure GE will be chosen, as i was sure a couple of months ago, i would say the race for the AMCA engne is between UPRATED EJ2000 and Kilmov Rd33,
you might remember that Kilmov was chosen to co-develop the TVC for the AMCA
as for GE there was a few problems in DTTI negotiatiosns and an RFP will be sent out soon)

as for mig1.44 , there have been rumblings, we may hear something solid soon.

nos. are important too, as IAF squardon no. is falling.
beside you get 3 mig 29 SMT's at the cost of 1 Rafale

Scratch said:

Though going for a Su-35 would be akin to just buying more MKIs right away, wouldn't it? It would not adress the IAF's desire to obtain a smaller, less costly, different type fighter.
I can see the point of buying Su-35MKIs in the future to expand the Flanker fleet with the latest capabilities of that airframe. And to close the gap to FGFA. Although that would probably mean threes different sets of avionics and engines right there.

I somehow see MiG-35s as likely, being the Flankers' smaller brothers. Although if availability and maintenance costs are issues with the Flankers, I'm not sure if Fulcrums are a solution.
Then again there are MiG-29Ks already. Maybe there's room for common sourcing and perhaps a future MiG-35K.
As a cost effective, strong capability medium class fighter, I still see the Gripen (single engine) fitting the bill nicely. With the Teja Mk IIs at the low end.

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India would be far more frugal and easier off by upgrading its MKIs to the "Super-30MKI" standard rather than purchasing brand new Su-35 airframes. Retrofitting the MKIs with the Irbis-E radar and possibly 117S should be relatively simple given the two systems' common airframe, not to mention a significant reduction in price vis-a-vis a Su-35 deal.

The key argument against the Su-35, however, is that the MMRCA (Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft) plan was orchestrated to bring in a light- to medium-weight fighter (i.e. in the weight class of the Super Hornet or Rafale). I have suspected from the beginning that the MMRCA aircraft are not meant to replace the IAF's front-line workhorses (i.e. MKI) but to fill a niche that the MKI couldn't occupy, which does not necessarily have anything to do with the MKI's wartime capabilities. The Su-35 would be redundant yet useless in tackling the problems for which the MMRCA program was established in the first place.

aksha said:

the Griffin comes second on my list because , of its commonality with the engines of the LCA ,cheaper than the other Eurocanards too.

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Buying Griffin C/D doesn't have much sense IMHO. It is significantly inferior to Mig-29 UPG already in Indian service, and much costlier (price similar to price of SU-30 MKI) . Of course, you could wait for Griffin E/F but it would take time to finish that project, and by that time even FGFA could be ready .

Best option would be to finally introduce Tejas, even if not fully operational, in greater numbers. Even now, It has to be lot better then Mig-21 Bis . Rest of the numbers could be made up with improved Su-30 MKI .

thunderchief said:

Best option would be to finally introduce Tejas, even if not fully operational, in greater numbers. Even now, It has to be lot better then Mig-21 Bis . Rest of the numbers could be made up with improved Su-30 MKI .

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I agree Thunder.

What do they have now...16 or so aircraft. They are at IOC too I believe.

When is FOC scheduled?

I too believe that the Tejas should be acquired in some good numbers and begin replacing those Mig-21s. This will give the Indian aircraft industry a needed boost, and they can improve the aircraft in steps over time. It would also buy them the appropriate and necessary time to move towards the more advanced aircraft they want.

India's own version of the Low-High could be Tejas - Su-30 MKI right now and for the next few years...and then move to add the more advanced low end aircraft from India and the PAKFA in the 2020s.