Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Air Force Brat said:

As anybody who read the initial report should understand, the Flanker VS Typhoon "merges" were "set-ups" to allow the Indian lads to get a feel for the country side, and to get to "play" with their thrust vectoring in the only flight regime where it is effective, as the Eng has stated in the very low speed regime, likely under 250 knots, and while the Typhoon will still turn inside the Flanker in that speed regime, the Flanker pilots were able to "yaw" or "slew" their nose side ways with the 3D nozzles, and doing so were able to "cheat" aerodynamics and "push" the nose sideways inside the "phoon", very simple and it has to be "under 250 knots", or you will cause structural damage, very likely what has happened to those sweet little T-50s, they may not be quite as robust as the Flankers, and as I suspect that aft weapons bay is likely a weaker area, thrust vectoring places very high "sideloads" on an airframe that is primarily designed to move forward through the air. The F-22 and Flankers are very "robust" airframes.

The Indian pilots who commented stated that they were able to "yaw" their aircraft and push the nose inside the "phoons" with the OVT. simple, get it, got it, good!

To be sure, a gracious host always offers the guest the Master Bedroom, in this case, these initial WVR merges were to allow the Flankers to play to their strengths, it was also obvious from the very few comments that in a more realistic scenario, the Phoon was operating in its own element, I believe they refer to the Phoon as an energy fighter, in other words you keep your birds speed and energy very high, once the phoon gets slow, it does enter into a regime where is is much more defensive, and much less dominant??? just physics.

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MAKS 2015 kicks off Aug 25, and no doubt there will be a flying display of the Su-35, and the T-50, it should be a great airshow, the proto-type Mig 1.44 is also to be on static display as per announcement, so it will not surprise me to see the Mig team come up with their own fifth gen once again??

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Pinning hope on India's indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, the

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chief, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, on Thursday was optimistic that the jet, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) would would meet requirements of the force.

"Obviously, the Tejas is a very good bet because we need to go indigenous. It may not be best in the world but obviously it will meet some of our requirements," Raha told journalists after reviewing the security scenario in the northeast with commanders from the Eastern Air Command here.

"We want them in large quantities and larger numbers so plan are afoot to improve its quality is likely more and produce them in larger numbers some more to fill the void that the IAF has more or likely to have it in the future as the legacy fleets get decommissioned and therefore, Tejas will be one of our mainstay," he said.

"Towards that I think Make in

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or indigenous production is what the government of the country is taking of so there will be a lot of fast tracking in this directions to have Make in India projects to replace these aircraft will make sense," he said.

On the Rafale deal, Raha said all plans are in place and a lot of activity is on for new acquisitions to replace the ageing fleet of the Indian Air Force.

"Everybody knows about that there are issues with the legacies of some of the fleet and they need to be replaced. Obviously they cannot carry on for too long. So, all the plans are in place...for new acquisitions to replace the older aircraft," he said.

Stating that there were various reasons the deal for 126 MMCRA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) could not fructify, Raha said the government had taken the decision to acquire 36 Rafale jets in flyaway condition after commitments were made at the highest level in France and India.

"I am very hopeful that it will be through much faster than the normal process," he said.

Noting that the Eastern Air Command is a priority area, Raha admitted that in the past few decades, the Indian Air Force had been concentrating more on the western theatre.

"A lot of infrastructure and assets has come up in those areas and we are quite well off in terms of our capability. But the eastern part of the country did not get as much attention it deserved. Therefore, we had some gaps in our capability but all of you know there is a lot of work (to be done) in this regard to bring up our capability," he said.

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HAL has aimed a serious blow at the Tejas Mark II Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), with a letter telling the Indian Air Force (IAF) that it does not have the manpower to work on developing an improved version of the current Tejas Mark I.

The Bengaluru-based public sector aviation monolith says its engineers are already stretched with existing projects, including the Tejas production line, design and prototype manufacture of a basic trainer aircraft, the Hindustan Turbo Trainer - 40 (HTT-40); and the testing and production of the Sitara Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT).

HAL has suggested that, instead of waiting for the Tejas Mark II the IAF should buy 80 Tejas Mark I-A, an interim fighter that would be more capable then the Mark I, but less than the Mark II will be.

Business Standard has learned of a heated debate under way between the user of the Tejas, the IAF; its designer, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA); and its manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

The IAF has already committed to buying 40 Tejas Mark I. In addition, the air force has indicated it will buy four-to-five squadrons (80-100 fighters) of the Tejas Mark II when it is ready.

HAL worries about the future of its production line after it delivers 40 Mark I fighters by end-2019. It plans to build four Tejas Mark I by March 2016; another eight by March 2017; and crank up production to 16 fighters annually by March 2018. After 2019, the production line would idle till the Tejas Mark II enters production.

Senior HAL and ADA officials agree the Tejas Mark II is unlikely to enter production till 2023-24. Developing the Mark II involves fitting in a more powerful engine --- the General Electric F-414INS6 replacing the current F-404IN --- and upgrading avionics and weaponry. With prototype development likely to take till 2019, another three to four years would go in flight-testing the Tejas Mark II and preparing production drawings.

HAL, therefore, wants the IAF to buy 80 Tejas Mark I-A to keep the production line occupied from 2020 to 2023-24.

The Mark 1-A would be faster and more agile than the current Mark I. Developing it would involve shaving off 800 kilogrammes from the current fighter, especially from systems like the landing gear, which are currently "over-engineered", or built heavy, for safety.HAL also proposes to remove 300 kg of dead weight distributed across the Mark I to balance it evenly.

HAL argues that the Mark I's GE F-404IN engine, which generates 84 kiloNewtons (kN) of peak thrust, would meet the IAF's performance requirements, if one tonne is shaved off the Tejas Mark I's empty weight of 6,500 kg. In that case, the GE F-414INS6 engine's 98 kN of thrust would be needed only for the naval Tejas, which must take off from the short runway of an aircraft carrier deck.

The IAF and ADA are taken aback by HAL's reluctance to participate in developing the Mark II. Even though the Tejas project is managed by ADA --- a branch of the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) --- HAL has developed important components. Besides many smaller systems, HAL designed the Tejas structure, its undercarriage and electrical supply system. It would have to upgrade these for the Mark II.

"We have completed the preliminary design of the Tejas Mark II, but now the detailed design will be done. HAL would have to refine and upgrade the systems it developed for the Tejas", points out a senior ADA official.

HAL's withdrawal stems from its deep-rooted concern over the Tejas assembly line, which was established at a cost of Rs 1,556 crore, with HAL paying half and the remaining shared between the IAF and navy. Keeping the line running is essential, so that skilled manpower does not have to be redistributed; and a steady flow of orders can be placed on sub-vendors.

HAL sees a four-year gap between the last Tejas Mark I and the first Tejas Mark II as seriously disruptive. Building 80 Tejas Mark I-A is a way of bridging that gap.

However, the IAF and ADA point to HAL's poor record of adhering to manufacturing schedules. They say HAL, which is more than a year late in building the Tejas Mark I, is unlikely to build and deliver 40 Tejas Mark I by 2019. So far, the Tejas line has built just one fighter.

"We can assure HAL that, if it accelerates the delivery of fighters to the point where it seems likely to deliver 40 Tejas Mark I before the Mark II is ready, we will certainly place orders for more Mark I fighters. The assembly line will not be kept idle. That is our assurance," says a senior IAF officer.

To overcome HAL's difficulties with building and assembling the Tejas Mark I, ADA proposes to adopt a new production model for the Mark II. The DRDO's aerospace chief, K Tamilmani, tells Business Standard that seven private sector companies will be chosen to manufacture the fighter's modules (systems and sub-systems). HAL will be responsible for integrating them and testing and delivering them to the IAF.

"If we have to accelerate production and build the Tejas Mark II to the requisite quality and quantity, HAL cannot be saddled with responsibility for everything. Instead, private companies will build modules, while HAL will be lead integrator," says Tamilmani

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my source Saurav Jha , (whom i named among the 4 most trustable defence sources as far as India is concerned, and who has never been wrong about news till now)
says
that the U.S has offered the F16 IN to India at ridiculous low prices,
so low that the Tejas developers are shivering with fear , because apparently it is offered at a lower cost than the Tejas Mk1. but also more capable
the DRDO seems to think somehow,that accepting this deal will be the biggest nail in the coffin of the Tejas

about the F16 IN

Lockheed Martin described the F-16IN as "the most advanced and capable F-16 ever."

Based closely on the F-16E/F Block 60 as supplied to the UAE, the features on the F-16IN include:

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  (CFTs) – This will give the F-16IN a combat range of 1700 km with 1500 kg weapons load.
• A Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 AESA (
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  ) radar. This is the same radar in service on the F-16 Block 60s in service in UAE.
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  engine with 143 kN full afterburning thrust with
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  Controls.
• Electronic warfare suites and infra-red searching.
• Advanced all-color glass cockpit.
• Helmet-mounted cueing system.

Lockheed Martin offered to sell India the

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aircraft in the future, as replacements, if the F-16 was chosen

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As the deadline for India's biggest ever defence deal for purchase of 126 new fighter planes nears, US aviation giant Lockheed Martin on Wednesday unveiled a new upgraded version of its F-16 fighter planes with 'super cruise' capability and Active Electronic Scanned Array (AESA) radars.

So far, the 'super cruise' capability is only seen in 5th generation fighters F-22 Raptors and it’s just unrolling F-35 joint strike fighters.

This capability would impart the fighter with extended range, as it can zoom from take-off to breaking the sound barrier without the use of fuel guzzling after-burners.

The export version of the fighters, for the first time, has also been equipped with AESA radars, as reportedly specified in the Indian Air Force's USD 10-billion tender for the acquisition of 126 fighters.

Top company official Chuck Artymovich told a group of Indian newsmen that the AESA radar, which gives the capability to simultaneously track and destroy ground and air threats, has been cleared by the US government for installation in 80 F-16s ordered by the United Arab Emirates.

"We are confident that similar green signal would be given for installation of such radars in the case of export to India also," he said.

Speaking while unveiling an India-specific Fighting Falcons (F-16 IN), the Lockheed Martin executive said that the proposed fighter planes would also be armed with infra-red search and track pods as well as, counter-electronic warfare pods.

"The F-16 IN is a complete new aircraft and totally caters to India's requirements and there could be no comparison with Block 50 and 60 fighters, being made for other countries," he said.

The US company officials said that there were fair chances of India increasing its fighter intake by 50 more planes. Artymovich's comment assumes significance, as the international tenders for the deal are expected to be opened on March 2.

Besides the F-16, other major contenders for the contract include Boeing's F-18, Eurofighter, Gripen of Sweden, Rafale of France and Russia's MIG 35.

At the ceremony, Lockheed Martin executives said they had met all requirements proposed in the Indian Request For Proposals (RFP) without giving out any details of the contents, citing confidentiality.

They said that the company was prepared to meet the RFP requirements of offsets, and would do so in the field of aeronautics or for co-development of an Indian Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV).

Fighting Falcons have proved to be the world's largest selling fighters with sales touching a figure of 4,300. It also holds a record of 400,000 hours of combat flying and being the safest multi-role fighter in the US history.

Asked why the company did not offer its 5th generation fighter F-35, Lockheed officials said that the deal time-frame ruled out the possibility for the same. On the occasion, Indian newsmen, were for the first time, shown the futuristic joint strike fighter.

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Heck...the the US Air National Guard ought to buy some of those F-16IN aircraft.

Particularly is the earlier Block 50 aircraft could be upgraded to it.

For the life of me I cannot see a coherent force strategy for Indian air power... It's a mess.

I see an F-16 buy, or last months flavor of the week Gripen, killing the Tejas. I felt the same of the now defunct MMRCA Tender too.

Basically any foreign deal for Light to Medium Combat Aircraft that would be fully or partially built in India would do the job of starving the LCA program of funding and highlight it's weaknesses versus the import fighter in overall capability & induction speed. LCA I think would likely be relegated to a small batch testing program in hopes of paving the way for the local AMCA to be India's real breakout indigenous fighter in such a case. MiG-29K would continue on for the IN.

F-16 is a hell of an aircraft and a sweet deal with local production would make for a great MiG-21,27,29 and Mirage replacement en mass. Very capable. Maybe LCA just isn't ready and needs to continue on as a funded research program. Engine aside, there is still a lot of critical foreign equipment in the LCA (Israel is making out well with this program) and I think that makes it easier for the IAF to look at alternative aircraft.

On the hi & big budget side of the equation you've got the IAF looking at maintaining the Su-30's for some time to come, if not investing in a major MLU and/or new variant build. Plus the T-50, FGFA (not to be confused with T-50) and AMCA for a stealth component. Not to mention a 5th Gen Naval Platform developed from either of these or a potential JSF buy to succeed the MiG-29K's. This appears to me the next IAF crisis. Too many airframes. Lots of foreign content. Lots of $$$. Little Indian content. Leading to logistical challenges that would become a nightmare in wartime, and limit the indigenous MIC.

All that said... India needs decisive leadership and planning from within it's MOD to take a call on future force projection needs for ALL of the services, within the context of available funds year over year. I think it's clear to anyone who watches the Indian Military that the IAF has way too much clout on overall strategy, where they should be playing a more consultative role along with the Army & Navy.
If the national goal is local MIC and local platforms then run with it. Accept that not every system built will be world class, but work towards getting it there. Otherwise pair down to one or two hi-lo foreign aircraft, make a deal and cut the rest of the bloat. Either way someone in the Indian MOD needs to grab a hold of the ball, while the IAF may need to take a page from the USMC and 'Make Due'

One more thought - The Rupee isn't exactly at a high point and devaluation of the Yuan will put pressure on India to devalue to keep competitive with exports. None of that is going to help with budgeting for anything imported, be it full blown aircraft or just engines and subsystems. Tough decisions ahead.

Jeff Head said:

Heck...the the US Air National Guard ought to buy some of those F-16IN aircraft.

Particularly is the earlier Block 50 aircraft could be upgraded to it.

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i have no problem if they sell the F16 IN at its ordinary prices,

but when you sell it at lower prices than the LCA ,
some idiot with too much power will ask
why do we need an indigenous fighter, when you can get a platform
that can supercruise, has AESA, ,superior payload , superior radius of action, the best EW in the international market, and last but not least cheaper too.



the LCA programme was almost cancelled in 2007 ,
(

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)

from what i hear it was the TATA's intervention that saved the project

the DRDO is right to fear the the F16 IN offer


Mirage 2000 nor mig 29 UPG will be replaced completely before at least 2030
according to the IAF both are being upgraded to last at least 25 years more.
and in their words , the Mig 29UPG is the best fighter they have at present , taking into account both electronics and aerodynamic qualities

aksha said:

i have no problem if they sell the F16 IN at its ordinary prices,

but when you sell it at lower prices than the LCA ,
some idiot with too much power will ask
why do we need an indigenous fighter, when you can get a platform
that can supercruise, has AESA, ,superior payload , superior radius of action, the best EW in the international market, and last but not least cheaper too.

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Well, if India could get a couple of hundred F-16INs cheaper than they could buy they same number of LCAs, they would be crazy not to take them up on it. (And then use the deal to buy the time to move ahead with the indigenous program.)

If Lockheed does offer thaty kind of pricing (and I have not seen anything official saying they would), then it is simply to get it out in the market to drive future sales, not to mention the logistical, support, maintenance, training, and weapons, etc. sales it will also generate for years to come.

Jeff Head said:

If Lockheed does offer thaty kind of pricing (and I have not seen anything official saying they would)

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you can trust Mr . Jha very well.
very close to the DRDO he is.



if they want an American fighter , i will still prefer them to take F18 with Ge 414 EPE engines
( EPE if the india is willing to fund it)

in other news, source : livefist

ndo-US combined military training exercise Yudh Abhyas 2015 to be held from Sept 9-23 at Joint Base Lewis McChord, USA.

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aksha said:

you can trust Mr . Jha very well.
very close to the DRDO he is.

if they want an American fighter , i will still prefer them to take F18 with Ge 414 EPE engines
( EPE if the india is willing to fund it)

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Well, what they are describing for the F-16IN, as new build aircraft with all of those toys and capabilities would be an extremely good multi-role, 4+ gen aircraft.

In the hands of the right pilots, a real challenge against almost any aircraft outside of true 5th gen.

An unbelievable replacement for a lot of India's legacy aircraft...well worth their money at the prices you describe...particularly if LM meats all of India's RFQ requirements.