Ideal Cruiser thread

[bd popeye]

And another idea to reduce hanger hight (if it makes sense). Make the hangerfloor an/four different elevator(s). You can lift it up so that it's just on the level of the aft helipad. Now the hanger is just as high as the helicopter (or anything else) it has to accommodate. To work there the elevator floor is lowered 1-2 meters to have enough space.
Or would incorporating that cost more space than it would save ?

Why? The elevator machinery would just use up space need for the crew or storage.

You can't reduce the height of the hangar. Helos need maintance at sea as well as ashore. Sometimes the rotor heads need work...

Although these pictures were taken on an CVN you get the idea..

 

[planeman]

I sometimes wonder if there's realy a need for those 76mm guns on those ships today. I mean with medium/close in SAMs and CIWS guns there should be enough and more suitable layers of air-defence. And I think those ships are not build to fit in the kind of ASuW these guns could offer.
Instead you could use the space for AK-730s more to the front of the ship or a Club VLS. Or perhaps launchers for small BMs (only some miles range) to carry a lightweight torpedo.

I think 76mm guns are all but useless except for air defence, where the future potential of 'smart' rounds makes them very attractive. But shore bombardment is better done by very long ranged guns (100km+) or large MRLS. another secondary role would be point defence against small surface combatants which somehow make it through the YJ-62 screen.

 

[sumdud]

76mm seems a bit meager for a crusier. Why not put in a 100mm?
large caliber MLRS?(Maybe)
LACMs? The crusier is the only ship in the fleet that will carry this.
Move one of the big guns to the back and put a CIWS to the front. (Better coverage.)
Maybe move the hangar back? I don't think you need a landing area this big, and you could have a second........radar stand (forgot name) and more VLS.
ASROC (dude, you don't have any submarine fighting weapons!)
---------
How high is the hangar on the Arleigh Burke 2s? (Burke Hangars seems to be much lower than other typical hangars.) I am sure if you want to reduce height, you can do that.

 

[Gollevainen]

Alright, round two..

This suggestion is based pretty much to the same overall idea than last time, with the China having the technological level of the soviets troughout the cold war.

This project 066 is basicly based on the Sovremennyy design, it has the same hull and machinery arragment. The orgins of the ship dates back to the late 70's and early 80's when some sort of small warming between the sino-soviet relations appeared. In result of this some of the new weapon systems designed in the 80's had some strikingly similarities with contenpory soviet designs. This project 066 is one of them.

It's main role is provide anti-ship and anti-air defence to carrier battlegroups and it's the sole Chinese surface combatant to be fitted with the HY-3 supersonic SSMs (six are carried in single tube launchers). A helicopter with mid-course guidance is provided. The main anti-air armament is the HQ-3 long range SAM (like in the 050 class that I introduced earlier) which airframe is basicly the HQ-61 with additional solid rocket booster. ASW armament is minimal as these ships are intended to operate alongside the better ASW ships. Main gun armament is two dual 57 mm Type 69 automatic cannons and 4 dual 37 mm Type 76A CIWS.

 

[planeman]

lovely pic mate. Nice design. I feel that I need a multihull proposition to [strike]derail[/strike], nay, provide adequate counter to your classic designs.

 

[Gollevainen]

well those are 'vintage' models from 'what if' past...

 

[planeman]

The Type-071 suggestion has me thinking, it reminds me of the innovative Danish warships of the Absolon class, which are large Destroyer sized but have a roll-on-roll-off vehicle deck (!) and function as both destroyers and power-projection warships:

There are some similarities in concept to the US littorial combat ship concept, except much better armed.
The Absolon is a bit weak on air-defence and lacks a substantial land-attack capability, but it does carry 16 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and two large helicopters (EH-101).

The Absolon class is about 6,500t so our 12,000t monster could easily accomodate a broader weapons load. My thoughts:

1/. A multi-use space concept where the vehiclre deck, helicopter hangers and storage/weapons lockers are all interconceted:
a) Roll-on, roll-off deck accessed from rear and side of hull. Has a helicopter sized deck lift to allow it to be used as an extra helicopter hanger and to allow easy transfer of vehicles to deck for air-lifting or to fit in more vehicles (at the cost of helicopters).
b) Large hanger in conventional position able to carry two large helicopters (i.e. Super Felon).
c) A heavy duty crane.

2/. Heavy land-attack punch:
a) 16 YJ-62 tubes which can carry either anti-ship or land-attack versions
b) A large MRLS capable of handling both WS-2 (200km) and A-100 (100km) rockets with a reload locker which has a rear-access to the hanger, allowing it to be used for additional rocket reload storage.

3/. Modest but capable air-defences:
a) Sacrificing area-air-defence and AEGIS style system capability to make space for the MRLS and SSMs
b) 48 SA-N-9 Shtil or PL-12 medium SAMs in VLS
c) 3 Type-730 CIWS'
d) 2 x 8 QW-4 point defence SAM launchers (unmanned)

4/. Consideration to in-shore defence and in-dock defence to reflect international intervention role
a) 76mm AK-176 gun
b) 2 x unmanned 25mm guns (Based on turret of WZ551 APC)
c) 2 x shielded, manned heavy machinegun mounts with automatic grenade-launchers
d) Some sort of comfortable pillbox for the sentries guarding the accesses.

5/. Modest ASW capability
a) Large helicopter capability allows alturnative role as an ASW flortilla leader
b) Towed VD Sonar capability (not always equipped for cost/crewing reasons)
c) 2 x 4 SS-N-29 ASW missile launchers
d) 2 x 3 Yu-7 lightweight torpedo tubes
e) Hull sonar

 

[Pointblank]

The Type-071 suggestion has me thinking, it reminds me of the innovative Danish warships of the Absolon class, which are large Destroyer sized but have a roll-on-roll-off vehicle deck (!) and function as both destroyers and power-projection warships:
[qimg]http://mbox.hchs.hc.edu.tw/~military/navy/euronavy/l16-l17-3.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7034/absolonclassfrigatedenmrj5.jpg[/qimg]
There are some similarities in concept to the US littorial combat ship concept, except much better armed.
The Absolon is a bit weak on air-defence and lacks a substantial land-attack capability, but it does carry 16 Harpoon anti-ship missiles and two large helicopters (EH-101).
[qimg]http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Skibene/FlexStoetteskibe/Layout_stor.gif[/qimg]
The Absolon class is about 6,500t so our 12,000t monster could easily accomodate a broader weapons load. My thoughts:

1/. A multi-use space concept where the vehiclre deck, helicopter hangers and storage/weapons lockers are all interconceted:
a) Roll-on, roll-off deck accessed from rear and side of hull. Has a helicopter sized deck lift to allow it to be used as an extra helicopter hanger and to allow easy transfer of vehicles to deck for air-lifting or to fit in more vehicles (at the cost of helicopters).
b) Large hanger in conventional position able to carry two large helicopters (i.e. Super Felon).
c) A heavy duty crane.

2/. Heavy land-attack punch:
a) 16 YJ-62 tubes which can carry either anti-ship or land-attack versions
b) A large MRLS capable of handling both WS-2 (200km) and A-100 (100km) rockets with a reload locker which has a rear-access to the hanger, allowing it to be used for additional rocket reload storage.

3/. Modest but capable air-defences:
a) Sacrificing area-air-defence and AEGIS style system capability to make space for the MRLS and SSMs
b) 48 SA-N-9 Shtil or PL-12 medium SAMs in VLS
c) 3 Type-730 CIWS'
d) 2 x 8 QW-4 point defence SAM launchers (unmanned)

4/. Consideration to in-shore defence and in-dock defence to reflect international intervention role
a) 76mm AK-176 gun
b) 2 x unmanned 25mm guns (Based on turret of WZ551 APC)
c) 2 x shielded, manned heavy machinegun mounts with automatic grenade-launchers
d) Some sort of comfortable pillbox for the sentries guarding the accesses.

5/. Modest ASW capability
a) Large helicopter capability allows alturnative role as an ASW flortilla leader
b) Towed VD Sonar capability (not always equipped for cost/crewing reasons)
c) 2 x 4 SS-N-29 ASW missile launchers
d) 2 x 3 Yu-7 lightweight torpedo tubes
e) Hull sonar

Easy: It's the jack of all trades, but master of none. This thing will require its own fleet (not just 2 or 3 frigates and/or destroyers, but an entire fleet) of escorts because it just has 'sink me first, I am a VHVU (very high value target)' written all over it. This ship isn't even a cruiser anymore; it is more of an landing ship dock (LSD). A cruiser requires only two other escorts; a multi-role, air defence and anti-surface warfare destroyer, and a frigate that is designed with anti-submarine warfare in mind. The ship will invariably be top-heavy, which is a nightmare for stability on the open seas and for damage control.

A design that makes more sense is as follows:

Hull
- 10,000 tons displacement
- Powerplant: 4 x Ukraine-made DA80/DN80 gas turbines rated at 48,600hp

Weapons
- 16 x YJ-62 anti-ship/surface attack cruise missiles
- 2 x 48 cell HQ-9 air defence missiles
- 2 x compact single mount 100mm multi-purpose guns
- 6 x Yu-7 torpedo launchers
- 2 x Type 730 CIWS
- 4 x 12.7mm pinnacle-mounted machine guns

Sensors
- Type 517H-1 (NATO codename: Knife Rest) long-range 2D air search radar
- Type 348 Radar S-band active phased radar array
- Russian Band Stand fire-control radar (for anti-ship missile and main gun)
- Two Type 327G (EFR-1, NATO codename: Rice Lamp) fire control radar for the CIWS.
- Hull mounted sonar
- Towed sonar array
- ECM and passive radar warning system
- H/ZBJ-1 information processing system

Aviation:
- Two Kamov Ka-28 Helix or two Z-9 ASW helicopters

 

[Gollevainen]

A little update to the previous...

The Sovremennyy idea made me think, why not made "a sinozed" sovremennyy...

So here's a one. It's basicly as the previous attempt, but has side-by side dual missile launchers of HY-3 (total of 8 missiles) and the hull and layout is directly as in pr. 956

 

[photo pds]

I think the PLAN will build the ship mostly like every one said but i not certainly sure that they will use a Agis radar system or somethinglike that because they have a fecsible radar right now and i am sure they will use it.