Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

ancestral said:

A little bit about myself. I'm a graduate and a master degree holder from a local university. I consider myself well-educated. I was also a newspaper editor before I decided to start my own business.

Here's what I want to see:

1. What to I want to see after all the shouting is done and the protesters gone home?
I want Hong Kong Basic Law Article 23 be passed so that we can arrest this blatant sellout called Jimmy Lai. He's the root of all evil. There are ample evidence pointing him to instigating chaos and facilitating "National Endowment For Democracy" operations in Hong Kong. We cannot have true democracy and Beijing will not trust us if they don't have some kind of assurance from HK. It will not happen anyway. We're pretty frustrated.

2. What would you and people in your circle want to see?
People in my circle are divided. About 70% of my alumi friends are pro-OC and pro-democracy (them being lawyers, doctors, the educated peeps). My whole family is anti-OC. The people in my region are extremely anti-OC. I fear for their safety if they dare try to come here. Some of them will probably get killed. You have no idea how furious we are.

3. What kind of governance do small and medium business owners want in Hong Kong?
It depends on the demography. People younger than 40 probably want some kind of democracy as well. The concept sounds sweet. "For the people, by the people", who doesn't want that? Before it turns ugly, I even overheard local pharmacies giving anti-OC students a discount for buying face masks. However, things change completely if you guys have no regard for our business environment and occupy our damn streets. I think they made a strategic mistake by occupying MK and CWB.

Back on the topic. No doubt business owners want a stable environment for business. We should take a look at the reality and wake up. HK is not cutting it. Even Lee Ka Shing is retreating from HK along with his investments. Only idiots will let bunch of 17 y/o fool them around. Unfortunately HK has too many of them.

4. Do folks like you feel Beijing's handling of Hong Kong has been fair to the handover agreement?
Fair. Much fairer than under British colonial rule. Unfortunately, ALOT of people seem to suffer from memory lost and think we HAD democracy under British rule. Those are the younger guys who weren't there to witness what's like before 97.

5. If you were old enough to have a HS or college-age kid in the protest, would you order him/her to come home? Wound he/she listen?
I have cousins who're probably still in the OC crowd. Their parents are worried, but speechless when it comes to politics. After all, it's pretty hard to argue against such ideals as "For the people, by the people". If I were their parents, I wouldn't have let that happen. My children would probably in the anti-OC crowd beating up OC peeps.

6. How bad is the situation gonna get?
I think the situation can turn really bad if the OC guys won't let up. Apparently, the triads are not the only people who want to teach the OC guys a harsh lesson. There are massive insult-trading and unfriending happening on Facebook already. Here are the kind of people affected by OC:

Professional Drivers and people related to logistic industry (they can be violent, especially if organized by union)
Business owners (they can be mildly violent)
Triad (they ARE violent)
Parents (they mostly whine)
local residents (they can be dangerous depending on the region)
Normal employees (divided depending on demography)

For their own safety, they should retreat back to Admiralty and leave CWB & MK asap.

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Blackstone said:

Thanks for sharing your views, they're very insightful and balanced. I hope in my lifetime to see China, including HK and Taiwan, with universal suffrage and recognizable representative governance in some sort of a republican (federation?) format. Don't know if I'll live that long, but even the CCP overlords have discussed and instituted democratic reforms in recent years, so it's definitely possible. The tried and true road to non-basket case democracy (e.g., India & Russia) is completing economic developments before attempting massive political reforms, and I hope the Chinese nation has enough wisdom, fortitude, and patience to see it through.

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Air Force Brat said:

I think Air's concern is that the police are "allowing the anti-OC crowd a little extra leeway, because they are tired of dealing with it as well???? Time for concern on both sides,,,,, it would be very unfortunate if China feels forced to intervene in Hong Kongs affairs, their restraint to date is encouraging?

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ancestral said:

A little bit about myself. I'm a graduate and a master degree holder from a local university. I consider myself well-educated. I was also a newspaper editor before I decided to start my own business.

Here's what I want to see:

1. What to I want to see after all the shouting is done and the protesters gone home?
I want Hong Kong Basic Law Article 23 be passed so that we can arrest this blatant sellout called Jimmy Lai. He's the root of all evil. There are ample evidence pointing him to instigating chaos and facilitating "National Endowment For Democracy" operations in Hong Kong. We cannot have true democracy and Beijing will not trust us if they don't have some kind of assurance from HK. It will not happen anyway. We're pretty frustrated.

2. What would you and people in your circle want to see?
People in my circle are divided. About 70% of my alumi friends are pro-OC and pro-democracy (them being lawyers, doctors, the educated peeps). My whole family is anti-OC. The people in my region are extremely anti-OC. I fear for their safety if they dare try to come here. Some of them will probably get killed. You have no idea how furious we are.

3. What kind of governance do small and medium business owners want in Hong Kong?
It depends on the demography. People younger than 40 probably want some kind of democracy as well. The concept sounds sweet. "For the people, by the people", who doesn't want that? Before it turns ugly, I even overheard local pharmacies giving anti-OC students a discount for buying face masks. However, things change completely if you guys have no regard for our business environment and occupy our damn streets. I think they made a strategic mistake by occupying MK and CWB.

Back on the topic. No doubt business owners want a stable environment for business. We should take a look at the reality and wake up. HK is not cutting it. Even Lee Ka Shing is retreating from HK along with his investments. Only idiots will let bunch of 17 y/o fool them around. Unfortunately HK has too many of them.

4. Do folks like you feel Beijing's handling of Hong Kong has been fair to the handover agreement?
Fair. Much fairer than under British colonial rule. Unfortunately, ALOT of people seem to suffer from memory lost and think we HAD democracy under British rule. Those are the younger guys who weren't there to witness what's like before 97.

5. If you were old enough to have a HS or college-age kid in the protest, would you order him/her to come home? Wound he/she listen?
I have cousins who're probably still in the OC crowd. Their parents are worried, but speechless when it comes to politics. After all, it's pretty hard to argue against such ideals as "For the people, by the people". If I were their parents, I wouldn't have let that happen. My children would probably in the anti-OC crowd beating up OC peeps.

6. How bad is the situation gonna get?
I think the situation can turn really bad if the OC guys won't let up. Apparently, the triads are not the only people who want to teach the OC guys a harsh lesson. There are massive insult-trading and unfriending happening on Facebook already. Here are the kind of people affected by OC:

Professional Drivers and people related to logistic industry (they can be violent, especially if organized by union)
Business owners (they can be mildly violent)
Triad (they ARE violent)
Parents (they mostly whine)
local residents (they can be dangerous depending on the region)
Normal employees (divided depending on demography)

For their own safety, they should retreat back to Admiralty and leave CWB & MK asap.

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Blackstone said:

Air has legitimate concerns on police protecting OC crowd from violence, and no one is saying otherwise. But what isn't getting enough attention/debate is rights of demonstrators vs. rights of every day people to carry on with their lives. Just societies must tolerate descent and even civil disobedience, for the "greater good" of the society, but they also must be faithful to the rule of law, and not ruled by law, or ruled by mobs. It's a trick balance to be sure, and I hope all sides in Hong Kong get it right.

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ancestral said:

You're welcome.

I think democracy MIGHT happen ONLY when Taiwan is incorporated into the country, and based on my observation I'm not sure if democracy like that is necessarily a good thing or not.

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The most likely form of democracy might happen within the communist party. I think we need to think out of the box here. The party is 86.7 million members strong. Suffrage among party members (who each have a vote to elect the cabinet. The party members will in turn be elected into the party by ordinary people) might be the democratic system with "chinese characteristics" that China and the Chinese people can accept. It has the potential to be more democratic than the American system.

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pla101prc said:

I rather see a stop to this good/evil debate, it's so pointless and frankly very few cares. at this point no matter how noble the cause, OC movement's continuation will do more harm than good, for both its participants and HK in general. neither does the compaint of police inaction make sense, students are there in an illegal congregation, and once harrassed, as they claim, they crank up the heat even more. now there are parts of toronto that I have never set foot on because i know they are not safe, and being a seven year army veteran i think i can protect myself much better than any of those weakling students out there. if you find a certain place to be hostile, walk away, its common sense. there would have been no "violence" if they students did not go there in the first place.

so here is an easy solution, dont go to an area where you are not welcomed, i know it sounds really complicated but i have faith in these kids, i know they will one day figure this much out.

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But since last summer, that hopeful outlook has evaporated. Russia's incursions into Ukraine and nuclear threats made by Russian President Vladimir Putin have killed any chance that the U.S. would withdraw its tactical nuclear weapons any time soon.

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