Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

Franklin said:

Here is what I think happened. The OC protesters have overstayed their welcome in many parts of HK and during the week their has been many verbal altercations between the protesters and the local residents and businessmans. On friday their frustration boiled over and turned into violence. When you have these sort of chaotic situations unfortunately you are going to have unsavory types of varius kinds to take advantage of it. That is were all the misdeeds comes from rather its those thugs beating up protesters or those girls being molested. There are no excuses for that and I hope those that are responsible are going to be held accountable for it.

However the problem is also that the OC movement and their supporters has given zero acknowledgment of the grievence and harm they have cause to others. And they put it all down to triad thugs or pro-Beijing elements or blame the government and police for this or that. They have simply swept aside the legitimate grief and concerns that their actions have cause to other residents of HK. And are now wallowing in self pitty and victimhood while their decisions and actions have help to cause many of the problems to begin with. I think this will further alienate the OC movement from the wider public in HK. People who at the beginning may have been supportive towards their cause may now turn against them.

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It's quite clear as I've predicted the rest of hk are getting sick of their lives being disrupted and business affected by the protests and letting the protesters know what they feel about it. But I just didn't realize it would be so soon. I figured it will be at least a few more weeks around the time hk economy start to feel the pain then the business people and common everyday folks start to fight back. I mean mainland visitors are avoiding going there but that is to be expected. And when the triads starts to feel their business are being threatened it's not hard to see them retaliating in unsavory ways. Too simple too
Naive. Stay in school kids!

雖然激,但好悶...因為唔知班街霸爭取緊乜L野...阻人搵食,與民為敵呀,行開啦...


要吐口氣: 還爭取什麽? 你們已經是神了，要封邊度封邊度、那個地鐵出口能開不能開你們説了算、巴士公司要回自己的財產要你們批准、警車出入你們要登車檢查、服務人民的救護車要求你們開路、規定要人幾時辭職、忤逆你們的全不是人、你們爭取自己想要的導致別人受苦別人要體諒、別人要求你們體諒他們的苦時你們判罪他自私、別人不接受你的意見就是獨裁、你不接受別人的意見是為了民主.....................那可是我見過最獨的獨裁者。到底現在的學校都在教什麽? 你們自發上街很清高? 別人都要仰望你們? 可你們又是從什麽民主制度推選出來的呢? 你們在代表誰呢? 你們説別人對你們的聲音充耳不聞，那你們有聽到我們的聲音嗎? 應該沒有，就算有也可不必理會，因為你們自以為是神! 但你們掩飾不了自私幼稚的行為………………

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"What more do these guys want? You guys are already gods. You can just block roads as you wish, decide which exit is open for subway stations, bus companies claiming back their property has to be approved by you, police cars have to be inspected by you guys boarding it, ambulance begging you guys to clear the roads, rule who needs to resign by what time, people are not people if they go against you, when you guys fight for what you want, you cause others to suffer and they all must endure you, when they ask for your understanding you say they're selfish, when others do not accept your opinions they're dictators, when you guys do not accept their opinions it's for democracy......this is the most dictating dictator we have seen. You guys say that others ignore your voices, but do you listen to our voices? Probably not, because you think you're GODS! But that doesn't cover your selfish and childish behaviour....."

I think everyone has the right to live their lives. OC did what they want for the past week. Their action is supported by some, however also took some others' rights away during the past week or even in the future (the long term effect). Therefore, there are some people need their lives back. What can they do? OC supporters can took away those people's lives and at the same time ask the gov and police not to 'touch' them. Those people who have their lives taken away can't do nothing about OC. They can report to police, what can police do? They can go protest about OC, then no one will have any sort of lives in HK beside staying on street 24/7. They can take matters into their own hands, push OC away from their street. Then, OC will say police are not protecting them. And the west would say pro Chinese are using 'force'...

Let me put it simply. When I'm standing in front of you front door to block anyone come in and out, what will you do? Call the police? Yes! That's what everybody would do. However, when the police come, I would ask them to not touch me. Coz I'm standing on the pavement which is a public space. Then you decide enough is enough. You start to push me away from your front door in order to get your normal life back. Guess what I'm going to do? I would first start to shout that you are being physical with me while I'm acting peacefully at all time. And when the police is getting involved, I would ask police to arrest you. You see, there is 'no way out' for you, is there?

Don't get me wrong. I support the real one person one vote which was OC's sole aim. That's why I supported OC at the beginning. However, when they knew their action was starting to affect the half (probably more) of HK population, they should've moved the protest to places like squares, parks, or even around gov buildings, but not financial, shopping or residential districts. Then, you are directly messing with others' lives. I guess that's what OC wants now, isn't it?

[video=youtube;DYgcelPQOp4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYgcelPQOp4[/video]

The man wearing glass is the one who support OC. He's the so called "beaten" one.

But you can see that he charged in to beat the old man first.

xiabonan said:

"What more do these guys want? You guys are already gods. You can just block roads as you wish, decide which exit is open for subway stations, bus companies claiming back their property has to be approved by you, police cars have to be inspected by you guys boarding it, ambulance begging you guys to clear the roads, rule who needs to resign by what time, people are not people if they go against you, when you guys fight for what you want, you cause others to suffer and they all must endure you, when they ask for your understanding you say they're selfish, when others do not accept your opinions they're dictators, when you guys do not accept their opinions it's for democracy......this is the most dictating dictator we have seen. You guys say that others ignore your voices, but do you listen to our voices? Probably not, because you think you're GODS! But that doesn't cover your selfish and childish behaviour....."

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Couldn't say it better myself considering what's happening, now. Chinese central gov must think thank god we have Shanghai and Shenzhen. Specially we still have the free trade zone set up earlier this year in Shanghai. I guess in the long term, those more than half of HK population (don't forget population of HK is more than 7 million) would slowly move somewhere else to live their normal lives if OC people act like this whenever they feel like it.

xiabonan said:

I think these photos show well enough that these anti-OC people are mostly ordinary citizens. They are not all thugs. That's only the minority.

Also, I've been browsing through some HK forums as well. Many of the comments there were very intense and extreme. Some even called the central government and the PLA to step in and restore social order. Many others call the students and protesters "selfish" and "infringe upon their normal lives". Many others were saying, "not everyone is so privileged like you guys who do not have to worry about food on the table and other necessities, and not everyone is so patient and well-mannered."

I assure you this isn't just a few that I saw. These are the majority on that thread, and thread has about over a hundred pages of comments. I browsed using my phone and screenshoted the comments but my phone is now charging. I'll upload the screenshots as soon as my phone is back.

Edit: I found the thread link. Those who can read Chinese can go and take a look.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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I took a look and noticed the opinions are swaying both sides, although i always wondered if hkdiscuz is different from uwants in terms of sentiments.

airsuperiority said:

I took a look and noticed the opinions are swaying both sides, although i always wondered if hkdiscuz is different from uwants in terms of sentiments.

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Well at least it shows that there are HK citizens who are not thugs and really find it disturbing, right?

To be frank I can't understand fully what's there because I don't speak Cantonese, but as far as I can understand, I see opinions from both sides.

It's probably not the case that "anyone who opposes OC are government hired thugs aimed at beating up students and molesting young girls". This is all I'm trying to say. I want to do some research and see for myself what are the voices of Hong Kong people, whether pro-OC or anti-OC. And I try to bring them here on this forum so that everyone who's not able to read Chinese can have some resources as well.

I care about HK, I care about the students and their wants, but I think I can never neglect the lives and voices of other ordinary residents.

airsuperiority said:

Unless you are on the streets in HK and see what's happening, and know what HK has gone through the past few years, don't start with me. You lost me at that already. You know nothing about what's happening in HK, end of story.

I didn't even read the rest of your post.

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It's understandable that your emotions have gotten inflamed, as you have pointed out in previous posts, but it doesn't validate nor justify your accusations above. Your accusations against SampanViking are a logical fallacy, namely 'argument to accomplishment'.

Your being there does not preclude others outside of Hong Kong of also knowing the situation. That assertion might have been valid in ancient times without recording devices or rapid communications but it's the 21st century and everyone around the world can immediately see and hear what's happening. Yes, his tone was condescending but his manner does not invalidate his argument, it simply makes him unlikable.

I really suggest for you to take a rest or maybe ask the mods to close this thread for a while so that you could replenish yourself; our emotions overwhelm our rationality when we're tired. Furthermore, you know it's a bad sign when a troll decides to like your comment. You've already made known your disdain for extremists who wave Union Jacks around HK; this particular individual is just as bad, if not worse.

Hi! I've been a lurker on this forum and following this discussion for a while now. I live in Hong Kong, 30, currently a business owner. I'm definitely not a thug or a triad member, and I am also completely against this OC movement.

I think this self-pity (and this movement) has to stop. I accept that you have a cause to fight for, but why demonize all those who are opposed to your point of view? You certainly do not represent 7 million HK people. You'll know if you try to occupy my region. We're all armed and ready to flush you out. When the government cannot secure our livelihood, we'll take matters into our own hands. Democracy sounds good, until you realize the so-called "universal suffrage" won't satisfy the pan-dem and Jimmy Lai. Here's what will happen even if your version of universal suffrage happens:


Pan-dem candidate got elected
Apple Daily and their pan-dem friends will still blame the opposition and central gov't for not helping HK, screwing up things.

Pan-dem candidate lost election
They will of course blame this on the CPC and say the election is rigged.

In conclusion, Jimmy Lai and his pan-dem friends won't rest until they dictate everything. They don't want democracy. They want chaos.

Lastly, here's an audio account of what happened during the first night of Mongkok clash, from the perspective of a police officer. It's a confidential audio sent to me by my friend in the [police] force. I feel compelled to share. Please do me a favor and not let it spread outside of Sinodefence for the time being. It's in Cantonese by the way.



I hope I didn't violate any forum rules. Peace!

airsuperiority said:

Unless you are on the streets in HK and see what's happening, and know what HK has gone through the past few years, don't start with me. You lost me at that already. You know nothing about what's happening in HK, end of story.

I didn't even read the rest of your post.

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I know Hong Kong is your home-town, and I know that its hard when those of us who don't really understand how "connected" you are to this situation, want to "put in our two cents". I fully support those students and protestors who want to exercise their freedom and self determination to chart a course for their future.... what is possibly not apparent is that the anti-OC protestors are trying to protect their future, and they feel that China is the key to their success and prosperity. Hong Kong has long served as a "Gateway" city, an "outpost" between East and West or West and East, as such it has benefited from "balance", or serving as a middleman, between two vastly different cultures, so that balance has to be "preserved" if Hong Kong is to continue in its role......hopefully this whole situation can be resolved in an equitable manner??

In the meantime, I will be praying for you and everyone affected to remain strong and principled, and to do the right thing, most of all I will be praying that these young people and others involved will resolve their differences peacefully, it will require a lot of thought and maturity on both sides, or should I say all three sides?????