HJ-8 ATGM in Syria

Its hard to gauge, but there are rumors now that the Islamist have started collecting taxes and opening courts, the number of foreign fighters and word is both AQ groups are now taking a leadership role. Given the savagery of the conflict it may be that the Syrian rebels have basicly been usurped and out numbered by the foreign fighters who now on the ground have become a occupation force.
at the same time the influence of Iran is on the rise on loyalist Syria.
I fear this stalemate proxy war is creating a potential game changer in the Middle east a sort of terrorist nation a army of Islamist just looking for targets and standing on the boarders of Israel,Jordan,Iraq and Turkey...
Turkey's PM basicly pouring fuel on the fire (no not with the missile deal)
Add to this the trouble in Egypt, the power plays made now by the new Iraqi prime minister, who is courting weapons from the US and is getting the backing of the Iranian government, some have already dubbed him Sadam lite. also the sanctions breaker move just made by China, the Obama administration bending over backwards to try and get a fools deal with the Iranians. The Palestinian authority demanding both the sun and the moon as they stall the current negotiations with Israel. Saudi Arabia giving up in frustration. With the UAE likely following.
right now we are living in the very interesting times the ancient Chinese wise men viewed as a curse. The middle east may just be about to break into a war of a nature that's has not been seen since the end of 1945.

plawolf said:

You are excluding yen possibility that the Syrians were able to learn from their mistakes. You'd be amazed at how quickly people adapt and pick up new skills when their lives are on the line.

The Iranians are no doubt playing a big part, as are they Hezbollah allies, but I think their role and contribution has been greatly exaggerated (and so is likely the role of Islamic extremists on the rebel side) and it is the Syrians themselves that are doing the bulk of fighting and dying. Neither side could have lasted this long if they were relying primarily on external support rather than its own populous.

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This is no entirely true, 9 months ago the rebels had reached the outskirts of Damascus in fact they have even taken key locations around the city, Aleppo was almost surrounded and Assad seemed to be on the back foot, it wasn’t until Hezbollah joined the fight did the rebels get pushed back and West beyond the Damascus-Aleppo road, today Hama and Homs are battlegrounds whereas start of the year it was all looking down for Assad today Assad has all the advantages no wonder he isn’t wanting to talk and open dialogue with anyone so if it wasn’t for the entry of Hezbollah and Iran this war would have been over long ago

And I said that Iranian revolutionary guards are not only advisors but also take part in military operations this does not automatically mean they are doing the bulk of the fighting, Syrians are doing the bulk of the fighting but you can do the bulk of the fighting as much as you like but it doesn’t mean jack when you don’t have overall strategic strategy and battlefield management

You can send in two divisions and without proper leadership pretty quickly they will become two companies, Hezbollah and Revolutionary guards are providing the overall strategic strategy and battlefield management, they operate from safe houses all over Syria directing and controlling the bulk of the Syrian forces in this conflict

Rebels knock out tank and a BMP.
[video=youtube;_8YNrgMnz50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8YNrgMnz50[/video]

The assad regime regime is using heavy tipper lorries to transport its gunmen in parts of Aleppo, so this isn't as wasteful a use of an ATGM as it first appears

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Isn't there any tactic to prevent ATGM attack? I think there've already been tens, if not hundreds, of tanks and APCs being destroyed by HJ-8. Assad's armor troop are just like sitting ducks for the rebels.

Fairly modern ATGM vs out dated tank and light armored vehicle? Keep moving. Keep watching for threats.
but really they are out classed. Best reaction is upgrade. Reactive armor, Hard kill active defense systems for Assad since he still has Russian aide maybe he should quit asking for air defenses and request Drozd or Arena kits for his tanks and vehicles.

Watching the video, I have to say the BMPs armor must have held up better then I had thought it would. But a correction BMP is not a truck (Lorrie) as the Brits say its a amphibious IFV.
still if these HJ8s are well out classing Assad's armor, they were designed to take on NATO spec MBTs of the 1980s so Warsaw pact 1960-1970s leftovers are easy prey. I bet they would even do a good amount of damage to a M1 and put a good sized dent in a M1A1 and A2 but that is without the TUSK retrofit, the same would likely stand for the Israelis armor the Merkiva 4 series with trophy and Namer IFVs with Ironfist would likely come out of a engagement unharmed.

SteelBird said:

Isn't there any tactic to prevent ATGM attack? I think there've already been tens, if not hundreds, of tanks and APCs being destroyed by HJ-8. Assad's armor troop are just like sitting ducks for the rebels.

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Send out more infantry patrols and sniper and scout team ahead of the armor pack with air support is another way. The reason why it's not happening I believe is because Assad doesn't have enough of them due to the war or lack of training for it before the war started.

Those tanks and APCs don't need top of the line hard kill upgrades. Even fairly basic things like laser warning receivers with directional triangulation could make a massive difference. Such systems are fairly cheap, and more importantly, easy to retrofit onto existing tanks and APCs.

As soon as an ATGM team uses the integrated range finding laser to check distance, the tank crew should get a warning that it has been lazed and the direction the laser beam came from. That gives them a chance to aim their turret and main gun at the source and either take out the ATGM team before the missile hits and thus likely causing the shot to miss. Or as a last ditch effort, they can pop smoke and drive hard to try and avoid the shot.

The basic thing to do would be to speed up as soon as you get a laser warning and stare hard at the direction the system tells you the laser came from. Fire a shell as soon as you have a target. Pop smoke if you see a missile inbound and them swerve off to one side hard to put as much horizontal distance from your previous position as possible and hope the missile operator gets either taken out by your shell or guesses wrong about where your tank went in the smoke.

plawolf said:

As soon as an ATGM team uses the integrated range finding laser to check distance, the tank crew should get a warning that it has been lazed and the direction the laser beam came from. That gives them a chance to aim their turret and main gun at the source and either take out the ATGM team before the missile hits and thus likely causing the shot to miss. Or as a last ditch effort, they can pop smoke and drive hard to try and avoid the shot.

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The HJ-8 has a max range of 4 - 6 km. I'm afraid any tank gun has that range; however, it's better than nothing.

SteelBird said:

The HJ-8 has a max range of 4 - 6 km. I'm afraid any tank gun has that range; however, it's better than nothing.

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Not every shot is made from max range.