Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

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tidalwave

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WTAN said:
The original article is in the Changchun Institute of Optics Website. CIT also has a subsidiary in Beijing called RS Laser which produces Arf Laser for Lithography.
Looks like they managed to produce a EUV Lithography machine with resolution of 22 - 32nm back in 2017. Not bad.
Main problem with EUV is the patents held by ASML.
Now with EUV sales to China being restricted by Wasenaar Agreement, the patents are no longer applicable in China.
I expect China to start the EUV Lithography project officially soon.
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It can't be just those academy science guys doing their things. The leading industrial heavyweights have to endorse them and actively implement them. The Huawei, ZTE, SMIC , Huahong grace all have to jump onboard and put them into practical usage. The problem I see no big Chinese industrial guys actively investing and promoting domestic EUV technology

Just as ASML was actively funded by Intel, Samsung , TSMC.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

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tidalwave said:
It can't be just those academy science guys doing their things. The leading industrial heavyweights have to endorse them and actively implement them. The Huawei, ZTE, SMIC , Huahong grace all have to jump onboard and put them into practical usage. The problem I see no big Chinese industrial guys actively investing and promoting domestic EUV technology

Just as ASML was actively funded by Intel, Samsung , TSMC.
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Now I would agree that if China still did not see the importance of investing in EUV technology, that does look like a blunder but:

We saw that when China declared the Made in China 2025 initiative, it scared the developed world, and if it were not for Trump's incompetence, the US and EU would easily have aligned against China strongly. If I were in the CCP, I would recommend EUV development be given top priority but under wraps and all participants restrict information about it at the highest clearance level. If fanfare were to be made for it, it would revive Western panic (this time moreso in Europe as EUV is the crown jewel of the Netherlands, which is a founding country of the EU).

So in general, I think everyone can see the importance of EUV (or some other route to achieve the same effect) for China, but there could easily be more than what meets the eye, or public press, in this instance.
 
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tidalwave

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manqiangrexue said:
Now I would agree that if China still did not see the importance of investing in EUV technology, that does look like a blunder but:

We saw that when China declared the Made in China 2025 initiative, it scared the developed world, and if it were not for Trump's incompetence, the US and EU would easily have aligned against China strongly. If I were in the CCP, I would recommend EUV development be given top priority but under wraps and all participants restrict information about it at the highest clearance level. If fanfare were to be made for it, it would revive Western panic (this time moreso in Europe as EUV is the crown jewel of the Netherlands, which is a founding country of the EU).

So in general, I think everyone can see the importance of EUV (or some other route to achieve the same effect) for China, but there could easily be more than what meets the eye, or public press, in this instance.
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China top level guys didn't see the importance of EUV either.got some mislead advices. made in 2025 boasting AI, 5G, and big data and 40% self sufficiency in components
They made AI mandatory courses either in highschool or college.

AI is not critical. What they did is unnecessary and misses the important one
 
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tidalwave

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This is out. US new rule will try block Semiconductor equipments to China even for civilian usage. I saw a number of US articles mentions Huawei switching 14nm to SMIC. So this new rule will hit everyone in China. Not just Huawei.

I think this is good. Chinese firms usually don't do it unless being forced upon and got no other choices or they will always take the path of least resistance.
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Canuck place

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tidalwave said:
This is out. US new rule will try block Semiconductor equipments to China even for civilian usage. I saw a number of US articles mentions Huawei switching 14nm to SMIC. So this new rule will hit everyone in China. Not just Huawei.

I think this is good. Chinese firms usually don't do it unless being forced upon and got no other choices or they will always take the path of least resistance.
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I read about what you said regarding how Huawei should enter the ICT field. Would this count?


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Looks like they took that route afterall although a little delayed.
 
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antiterror13

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tidalwave said:
This is out. US new rule will try block Semiconductor equipments to China even for civilian usage. I saw a number of US articles mentions Huawei switching 14nm to SMIC. So this new rule will hit everyone in China. Not just Huawei.

I think this is good. Chinese firms usually don't do it unless being forced upon and got no other choices or they will always take the path of least resistance.
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Huawei is not switching to SMIC, mostly still with TSMC. SMIC 14nm is used by Huawei for lower spec chips. Most likely for cost reason
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

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antiterror13 said:
Huawei is not switching to SMIC, mostly still with TSMC. SMIC 14nm is used by Huawei for lower spec chips. Most likely for cost reason
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Well, 14nm is the best SMIC has so taking that over TSMC 12nm is switching to SMIC. Now obviously Huawei can't just switch its 7nm TSMC to SMIC cus SMIC is not ready to supply something like that yet. But this is Huawei switching from TSMC to SMIC at the fastest pace that SMIC is ready to accomodate.
 
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antiterror13

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manqiangrexue said:
Well, 14nm is the best SMIC has so taking that over TSMC 12nm is switching to SMIC. Now obviously Huawei can't just switch its 7nm TSMC to SMIC cus SMIC is not ready to supply something like that yet. But this is Huawei switching from TSMC to SMIC at the fastest pace that SMIC is ready to accomodate.
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agreed, great think for SMIC ... soon SMIC will have 7nm, hopefully in 2022
 
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WTAN

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There has been a recent breakthrough in DUV Lithography in China.
SMEE has just in April 2020 newly developed a 22nm Dual Stage Immersion Lithography machine. This means SMEE has caught up with ASML in DUV Lithography machine technology.
When released, it will be able to produce 7nm Chips using Multi Patterning.
This is a step forward in China being able to produce the latest Chips using locally made Lithography equipment.
The next step is for China to start the Project for EUV Lithography Machines in order to produce Chips 5nm and smaller.
Will forward the article soon.
 
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