Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

adiru said:

first you accuse me of being hydrogenpi, now arkboy, what next tidalwaves multiaccounts will be pinned on me too??

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Well, I don't remember arkboy's writing (though you had the same idea as his and I don't remember seeing that idea come out of your current account) but you and hydrogenpi write exactly the same and you both PM me the same conspiracy theories. And also, hydrogenpi PMed me about tidalwave's multiple accounts so since you're continuing that private conversation which you weren't technically a part of under this screen name, I'd say that's a confession.

And don't ever give me that, "We're on the same team" garbage when parading ideas like giving the ROC independence for anything. No one on China's "team" would consider it for anything.

manqiangrexue said:

Wait, are you ARKBOY? Is this your new account? Cus that's the account that made that suggestion before it was banned.

And that's the most disgusting and stupid idea I've ever heard. Rather build nukes and prepare for WWIII than go that route.

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its about marginal advantages...

technology is more important than land

China is already huge in land and GDP, adding extra taiwan means nothing to be honest

Getting the tech from TSMC will pay far more dividends and had China got to TSMC first instead of Trump, the situation would be completely reversed and China would have the upper hand now

Instead China may fall behind, tide turns, point of inflection favors USA, and also eventually lose Taiwan too, left with nothing...

Otherwise had Xi been smarter China solves 3nm first, 5G dominance global, AI dominance, climb that value chain, wait for 20 years USA empire is gone, then retroactively take back Taiwan anyway

Had Xi had an advisor like me China would be in much more powerful position today.

adiru said:

its about marginal advantageous...

technology is more important than land

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Incorrect. Land is always most important because land is permanent while technology can grow and fall; it is ephemeral. You can catch up in tech with hard work or fall behind from mistakes, but land that is yours is yours forever.

adiru said:

China is already in land and GDP, adding extra taiwan means nothing to be honest

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The ROC is China's core interest. It is the honor of every Chinese that the ROC is never independent. It's far more a spiritual matter than a material one. Every Chinese understands that.

adiru said:

Getting the tech from TSMC will pay far more dividends and had China got to TSMC first instead of Trump, the situation would be completely reversed and China would have the upper hand now

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That's not even true. TSMC uses US tech (which is why it is susceptible to this ban) and is not a lithography producer. Once China gets it, it will be choked again. The only way out is for China to master every tech on its own from lithography to semiconducter manufacturing. Those compared, lithography is by far the more important. I would say that once China solves lithography, TSMC's edge will be run over in short order.

adiru said:

Instead China may fall behind and also lose Taiwan too, left with nothing.

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Losing the ROC is a matter of nuclear war; it has nothing to do with this discussion.

manqiangrexue said:

Incorrect. Land is always most important because land is permanent while technology can grow and fall; it is ephemeral. You can catch up in tech with hard work or fall behind from mistakes, but land that is yours is yours forever.

The ROC is China's core interest. It is the honor of every Chinese that the ROC is never independent.

That's not even true. TSMC uses US tech and is not a lithography producer. Once China got it, it will be choked again. The only way out is for China to master every tech on its own from lithography to semiconducter manufacturing. Those compared, I would say that once China solves lithography, TSMC's edge will be run over in short order.

Losing the ROC is a matter of nuclear war; it has nothing to do with this discussion.

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Arizona fab TSMC is for DARPA chips...
How does China expect to wage war of the future if the chips it needs for 5G and AI are usurped by the enemy?

manqiangrexue said:

Incorrect. Land is always most important because land is permanent while technology can grow and fall; it is ephemeral. You can catch up in tech with hard work or fall behind from mistakes, but land that is yours is yours forever.

The ROC is China's core interest. It is the honor of every Chinese that the ROC is never independent. It's far more a spiritual matter than a material one. Every Chinese understands that.

That's not even true. TSMC uses US tech (which is why it is susceptible to this ban) and is not a lithography producer. Once China gets it, it will be choked again. The only way out is for China to master every tech on its own from lithography to semiconducter manufacturing. Those compared, lithography is by far the more important. I would say that once China solves lithography, TSMC's edge will be run over in short order.

Losing the ROC is a matter of nuclear war; it has nothing to do with this discussion.

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China isnt going to nuclear war for a small island... dont put your ideology in the way of the true wellbeing of 1.4 billion lives. China needs to be more practical and not let vestigal hinderances of the past including meaningless associations of reunifying Taiwan keep it from true ascension and restoration of its destined glory

I think China should make an alliance with South Korea for semiconductors

adiru said:

Arizona fab TSMC is for DARPA chips...
How does China expect to wage war of the future if the chips it needs for 5G and AI are usurped by the enemy?

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First of all, who said that 5G chips and AI are needed to wage war? None of the military designs today use 5G chips and AI is simply not ready. That's not to mention that Huawei has the best 5G in the world by far with just 7nm chips and that seems to be within China's reach with DUV in the near future as China marches forward with next gen lithography machines. These technologies do not affect China's nuclear deterrent or its war-fighting capabilities over the ROC for the short to medium term.

adiru said:

China isnt going to nuclear war for a small island... dont put your ideology in the way of the true wellbeing of 1.4 billion lives. China needs to be more practical and not let vestigal hinderances of the past including meaningless associations of reunifying Taiwan keep it from true ascension and restoration of its destined glory

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I didn't make up that ideology! Chinese generals have notoriously announced that China would go to nuclear war with the US over the ROC if push came to shove. Don't project your own cowardice onto others; there is nothing vestigial about honor. Chinese are willing to go to war and die in MAD with the US, leaving the world in Russian hands if the Taiwan Issue called for it.

Your schizophrenic posts, saying China's "finished" in one comment, then hours later saying it's destined to restore its glory, are just nonsense for rational people to try to comb through! If you're going to have multiple accounts, at least assign them to your multiple personalities so it makes some sense when people read what you wrote.

WTAN said:

If you had been following this thread you would have come across numerous articles quoted about the SMEE 28nm DUV machine due in December. I also quoted an article which said SMEE developed a 22nm machine in April this year.
In any case ASML stopped developing improved versions of their DUV machine many years ago which explains this so called hard limit of 38nm on DUV Immersion tech.
As for spec sheets this will have to wait unfortunately closer to the launch date of the machine.
SMEE does not provide much information on their website either which is not helpful.
Resolution on the DUV machine can be improved by using new immersion techniques & materials as well as improving the projection lens.
Changchun Institute & SMEE have been working on these aspects while much of the world have moved on to EUV development.

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Well, you just made it obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about this industry that you have no clue what you are talking about. I feel sorry for people who actually believe your drivel.

manqiangrexue said:

First of all, who said that 5G chips and AI are needed to wage war? None of the military designs today use 5G chips and AI is simply not ready. That's not to mention that Huawei has the best 5G in the world by far with just 7nm chips and that seems to be within China's reach with DUV in the near future as China marches forward with next gen lithography machines. These technologies do not affect China's nuclear deterrent or its war-fighting capabilities over the ROC for the short to medium term.


I didn't make up that ideology! Chinese generals have notoriously announced that China would go to nuclear war with the US over the ROC if push came to shove. Don't project your own cowardice onto others; there is nothing vestigial about honor. Chinese are willing to go to war and die in MAD with the US, leaving the world in Russian hands if the Taiwan Issue called for it.

Your schizophrenic posts, saying China's "finished" in one comment, then hours later saying it's destined to restore its glory, are just nonsense for rational people to try to comb through!

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Keep up, in the future all warfare is autonomous, deep learning needs state of art chips. Without AI enhancement your fleet dont have edge in combat... it cannot be overstated the power of AI

As for Taiwan, TSMC cut off Huawei was a betrayal that crossed red line. Peaceful reunification is out the window. China needs to decouple from Taiwan and crash Taiwan economy hard, not for revenge but because Taiwan is now a proxy of the enemy and it makes zero sense to continue propping it up, just let it dieoff like hk...

People are saying the US has the best in everything yet they can't make the smallest chips? Why aren't Taiwan and South Korea the top superpowers since they can make the best chips? Yet China has to yield because they can't make the smallest chips right now? The most advanced nuclear warhead, the W88, was designed on an Apple IIe.