Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Taiwan Bill Delayed Amid White House Pushback

It’s the latest clash between Congress and the Biden administration over China policy.

Congressional sources confirmed the Biden administration and top lawmakers are at odds over the Taiwan Policy Act of 2022, which would authorize $4.5 billion in security assistance to Taiwan, designate it as a major non-NATO ally, and elevate it within international institutions.

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True or saving face? We will find out in September:
One Democratic Senate source familiar with the situation told The Dispatch the schedule change was not related to the White House’s concerns, but it came because committee chair Bob Menendez—who is the lead sponsor of the Taiwan support bill—had to manage Senate floor debate on an unrelated measure Wednesday night to allow Finland and Sweden to join NATO.
The Foreign Relations Committee is planning to reschedule the meeting for September, the source said, after members return to Washington, D.C., from a month-long recess.
China would certainly view the Taiwan legislation as a new provocation, but it’s one lawmakers argue is essential to deter China’s aggression.
Beyond authorizing billions in security assistance, the bill would also expand the kinds of weapons Taiwan can purchase from the United States, including not just those “of a defensive character,” but also “arms conducive to deterring acts of aggression” by China. It mandates the Defense Department create a training program with Taiwan to boost the island’s defenses.
The legislation seeks to build closer ties with Taiwan through a fellowship program that would send eligible U.S. federal employees to Taiwan for up to two years.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Thank you for these thoughtful comments. There is definitely some impatience on both sides, I think. The history of the issue is fraught with disagreements and misunderstandings, and 九二共識 is something that was basically made up, seeing that there were significant disagreements even in 1992. It still had value though, and its demise was unfortunate.

Personally, I do feel the current situation of heightened tensions all started with 反送中 in 2019. I don't know if you recall, but the DPP was basically on the ropes after the losses in '18, before being saved by the images of tear gas in the streets of HK. I still wonder if the CCP thinks it was worth it, simply handing over the election to Tsai. Some in Taiwan joke that Xi actually wanted Tsai to win given their actions, lol.
I think Tsai would have still won. She wasn’t strong but her opponents were even weaker. 2019 was definitely not when the current tensions started. Tsai refused to affirm the 92 Consensus after she was first elected unlike her predecessor and that immediately led to some worsening of relations, but the real ramp up began when she called Trump after his election and Trump answered. Her language from day one was that Taiwan didn’t need to declare independence because it was already independent, subtly but firmly shifting the issue of Taiwan’s status towards recognition, which she pursued aggressively. The relationship was pretty bad even before Xinjiang or HK entered the news cycle.

No matter what you think about the details of the 92 Consensus, the point of it was that it allowed Taiwan and China to continue the ambivalent status quo. Beijing would have been much more patient, tolerant, and willing to negotiate and reason so long as they thought there was still an open path to peaceful reunification. The path didn’t need to be walked through. It just needed to exist in the background.
 
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weig2000

Captain
Thank you for this comment, and please know that I will be completely sincere in this response. Perhaps there was a bit of sarcasm in other ones, lol, but I am going to be completely sincere in this one.

I totally agree with you re: a counterproductive dynamic. I just think we’re operating from very different pretexts, since you seem to think peaceful unification is possible (which is not the case for me, for reasons below). I actually think I understand why the Chinese think Taiwan should be part of China. Historically(well, up until 1895 happened) and culturally(well, up until we were cut off for 4 decades or so), it makes far more sense for Taiwan to be part of China than independent. I think the closest analogy would be Hokkaido and Japan: fairly recently colonized (by the Japanese from Honshu, in this case, about two centuries after Koxinga removed the Dutch), some geographical barriers (though of course, the Tsugaru Strait is far narrower than the Taiwan Strait), a fairly significant indigenous population that was brutally dispersed, etc. The difference however, is that the 清 dynasty was incompetent, arrogant, debaucherous, and senile, and couldn’t even hold on to one of their most lucrative and quickly-modernizing provinces, unlike the Japanese who reformed and beat the Russians decisively. As the Athenians once said, “the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” C’est la vie.

Ok, that was a pretty significant detour and this isn’t supposed to be a history lesson. The issue, I think, that is causing all the moral theater is that most Taiwanese no longer think it possible to convince the Chinese of Taiwan’s independence. Peaceful independence has always been a pipe dream, and other options such as 一國兩制 are no longer acceptable after seeing what happened to Hong Kong. I recall 真普選, 雨傘革, and 反送中 very vividly. I’m going to be frank with you: I no longer think peaceful unification is possible. The recent comments from your ambassador to France, Lu Shaye, has only solidified this view. I’m sure you’ve heard, but he insisted that the Taiwanese will be subjected to “re-education” after unification. Your government is going to subject us to the same treatment as Uyghurs, who were bombing train stations and randomly stabbing people in the streets, while I am pretty sure that there have been nada Taiwanese terrorism attacks. 是可忍,孰不可忍?

Considering that we are currently outnumbered, outspent, out-teched by the Chinese, plus engaging in dialogue appears to be futile (considering the gulf between our two peoples, not to mention governments), what else is there to do but condescend and engage in vague moral concepts such as democracy and human rights? It’s one of the final joys left to a people who is likely to suffer great pain and suffering sometime in the decades to come. I care about moral theater not because I don’t care about practical outcomes, but because I cannot see any practical outcome that is acceptable to me. Why should we unify if we are fine on our own? If we unify, is there a future where we choose our own leadership through free and fair elections, where we can assemble in the streets and protest the government, and where we can post funny pictures of Xi Jinping as Winnie? (Actually, I think you can do the latter now if I’m correct, but that initial censoring was so bizarre.) Would such an 一國兩制 be even remotely acceptable to the CCP? I think not, though I'm open to arguments to the contrary.

I just don’t think there is such a future short of some miracle where a) the Chinese people are collectively brainwashed into thinking Taiwan is independent, b) Taiwan breaks a blockade, throws the PLA back across the Taiwan Strait, and avoids starving to death, or c) the Chinese economy inexplicably collapses. Short of these, it’s likely that I would die in the war or be re-educated sometime in my late-twenties to early-thirties, and that is just f-ing unfortunate. So, so, so f-ing unfortunate.

So to all the Chinese people reading this, forgive the 灣灣’s condescension and snobbishness. It is about the only thing left to these Taiwanese who see clearly that we are the Melians to the Chinese’s Athenians, and yet will not, cannot, stomach the thought of simply laying down without a fight. Many of us are, I believe, stuck between a rock and a hard place. So we try to 富國強兵 as best as we can, and we laugh at the Chinese on the internet whenever we get the chance, while we try to not think too hard about the 東風 and 鷹擊 ready to blow us to bits. At the same time, I’m sorry about the mockery and condescension, but some of you must realize how ridiculous figures like 華春瑩 are, right? Recent tweet of “palates don’t cheat” being exhibit A. (I can lay out why I think it was absolutely hilarious if any of y'all are interested. )

I apologize for any emotional discourse. In the meantime, in the interest of convincing at least some Chinese that Taiwan is indeed currently de facto independent, I will take any questions you may have on this matter. I’m not sure how many of you don’t think Taiwan is de facto independent, but regardless, I’m open to questions. And I will try to avoid any condescension or moral theater whatsoever. Whether Taiwan should be independent is another matter entirely. I personally think it should be subjected to a referendum like the Quebec or Scottish ones, with the terms of a referendum laid out in an act (something like the Clarity Act in Canada) passed by the Legislative Yuan to legitimize the secession of a region from the ROC. The reality of the situation, however, is that the PRC will do what they please ‘cuz they got the big guns. There is no “justice” to be discussed ‘til we also get some big guns.

TL;DR: practical outcomes outside of war hopeless, chances of persuading Chinese people of Taiwanese independence nil, open to discourse but to me it is probably useless anyhow, still, open to questions.

Appreciate and welcome your sincere response. The topic is vast and complex. I'll respond with a few comments.

It's clear that Taiwan has evolved towards a new identity over the last decades. This is particularly pronounced among younger generation. Education and pro-independence brainwashing have played significant role, but Taiwan's prolonged isolation from the mainland, Taiwan's so-called democratic transition as well as the predominance of the US/Western ideology in the post-Cold War era, which ended until recently, all contributed to the process. In fact, the growing power and wealth of mainland China does not help and the effects might have been the opposite.

On the mainland China side, it has been the official policy since late '70s to appeal to Taiwan's Chineseness ("Blood is sicker than water"). It was coupled with economic inducements and incentives later as Chinese economy took off. That's the carrots. Increasingly, mainland China also started to wield the stick, as Taiwan has been clearly but inexorably drifting apart towards independence. It's pretty meaningless to argue about the exact wording and meaning of the so-called "92 Consensus," which was created to leave some grey area and is good-faith based and unenforceable anyway.

More recently, I think both the ruling elites and common people in China have come to the realization that neither appealing to the Chinese nationalism nor economic incentives works. In their views, Taiwanese have been thoroughly brainwashed. Lu Shaye's assertion that Taiwanese will go through re-education after unification reflects such realization, so does Major General Jin Yinan (金一南)'s declaration that Taiwanese who don't want unification can always leave Taiwan and China will still want the island -- so it's more about territory than people. All these may sound outrageous to Taiwanese. If you feel the same, just think about what former Singapore Prime MInister Lee Kuan Yew once commented about DPP's pro-independence brainwashing to create a new Taiwan identity. He basically said DPP is so cruel in doing that because once Taiwan is reunified, and it will be, they will have to go through the re-education process to re-establish their Chinese identity and that would be a painful process.

At this point, the fundamental differences between Taiwan and mainland China are huge and effectively unbridgeable. Only a great deal of pragmatism from Taiwan can avoid the fate, but that would be asking for something totally impossible from Taiwan. As a result, a forced unification is the only feasible and most likely outcome, as unpleasant as it sounds. In fact, I think it's actually the best solution for both mainland China and Taiwan in the long run. 1C2S a la Hong Kong has proved to be a bad solution to both HK and China, which was an unprecedented concession by China when China was poor and weak. It would not be a solution that today's China can accept. Taiwan will not be allowed to have its own military but it can have high-degree of autonomy similar to today's Hong Kong or Macau. That's what Taiwan will end up to be whether it's going to be a peaceful or forced unification.

Your views about Uyghurs and Hong Kong have been clearly influenced by your background and environment. If you're open-minded and willing to learn, you'll find the situations are totally different from what you imagine. But that would be another topic for another day.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
True or saving face? We will find out in September:
A war act if I've ever seen one. "deterring China" I guess the same way the Japanese deterred the Allies at Marco Polo bridge and Pearl Harbor.

Another bonus from Pelosi's blunder is that China now has arrayed enough forces to defend Taiwan for whenever Biden goes on TV and does the American version of Putin's February 24 speech.

They know they're losing hard economically, so now they'll try fighting a war. It would be more convinient for China to fight US once it has several times more VLO platforms and more ships, but in practice, the defending party has never been able to count on to luxury of finishing all their moves.

Japan struck before America could come close to remotely finish their fleet program and before they had a comparable naval fighter. Germany stuck before USSR could finish its army reforms.

China's remaining next gen developments will probably have to be done midwar, but this will not be a huge setback. You fight with the army you have not the one you wish you had, and I'm pretty sure the government planned extensively for this.

The only hope for peace now lies on the US people, or more accurately, the pro peace faction in the US regime (as the people have clearly lost power) to stop the revanchists from going to war.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Appreciate and welcome your sincere response. The topic is vast and complex. I'll respond with a few comments.

It's clear that Taiwan has evolved towards a new identity over the last decades. This is particularly pronounced among younger generation. Education and pro-independence brainwashing have played significant role, but Taiwan's prolonged isolation from the mainland, Taiwan's so-called democratic transition as well as the predominance of the US/Western ideology in the post-Cold War era, which ended until recently, all contributed to the process. In fact, the growing power and wealth of mainland China does not help and the effects might have been the opposite.

On the mainland China side, it has been the official policy since late '70s to appeal to Taiwan's Chineseness ("Blood is sicker than water"). It was coupled with economic inducements and incentives later as Chinese economy took off. That's the carrots. Increasingly, mainland China also started to wield the stick, as Taiwan has been clearly but inexorably drifting apart towards independence. It's pretty meaningless to argue about the exact wording and meaning of the so-called "92 Consensus," which was created to leave some grey area and is good-faith based and unenforceable anyway.

More recently, I think both the ruling elites and common people in China have come to the realization that neither appealing to the Chinese nationalism nor economic incentives works. In their views, Taiwanese have been thoroughly brainwashed. Lu Shaye's assertion that Taiwanese will go through re-education after unification reflects such realization, so does Major General Jin Yinan (金一南)'s declaration that Taiwanese who don't want unification can always leave Taiwan and China will still want the island -- so it's more about territory than people. All these may sound outrageous to Taiwanese. If you feel the same, just think about what former Singapore Prime MInister Lee Kuan Yew once commented about DPP's pro-independence brainwashing to create a new Taiwan identity. He basically said DPP is so cruel in doing that because once Taiwan is reunified, and it will be, they will have to go through the re-education process to re-establish their Chinese identity and that would be a painful process.

At this point, the fundamental differences between Taiwan and mainland China are huge and effectively unbridgeable. Only a great deal of pragmatism from Taiwan can avoid the fate, but that would be asking for something totally impossible from Taiwan. As a result, a forced unification is the only feasible and most likely outcome, as unpleasant as it sounds. In fact, I think it's actually the best solution for both mainland China and Taiwan in the long run. 1C2S a la Hong Kong has proved to be a bad solution to both HK and China, which was an unprecedented concession by China when China was poor and weak. It would not be a solution that today's China can accept. Taiwan will not be allowed to have its own military but it can have high-degree of autonomy similar to today's Hong Kong or Macau. That's what Taiwan will end up to be whether it's going to be a peaceful or forced unification.

Your views about Uyghurs and Hong Kong have been clearly influenced by your background and environment. If you're open-minded and willing to learn, you'll find the situations are totally different from what you imagine. But that would be another topic for another day.
Peaceful reunification through economic enticement has failed despite the overwhelming success of the Chinese economy. Taiwanese enjoy a standard of living that is on par or higher than Chinese citizens from the costal cities.

And the real issue has never been about economy, but rather political. When people talk about their Taiwanese identify, they are in fact talking about their political system/way of life.
 
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