Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
It would be better if we reunite peacefully than get involved in years long occupation war that may or may not involve the US. If it comes to AR, the number of civilian deaths would be unacceptable. As much as this was a more distant consideration before yesterday, the reality that AR has become a more lucid possibility should make pro ccp people reflect on what it truly means.

We aren't Russian and ought not be cruel enough to justify the deaths of other Chinese folks who happen to be our political enemies. Are you wishing for the ccp to get its hands bloody with a genuine invasion of Taiwan? If that's the case, I would hope for the US to get involved so that at the very least a showdown is earned from a china on china war. Winning that US china conflict is the primary goal.

Retaking Taiwan is also symbolic. If you don't win the heart and minds of the islanders you can't exactly reunite in the full sense of that word. Defeating the US is a greater task and resolves the civil war conflict. If PRC is ready and wanting to perform AR if should be ready to defeat the US in western Pacific otherwise it would be a long expensive bloody war that ends up not earning you any more loyal population and productivity.
Chinese who are not loyal to the Five Star Red Flag and Chinese Communist Party are not real Chinese.

Zhonghua Minzu 中华民族 consists of:
  • 56 ethnicities on the mainland
  • Taiwanese patriots
  • Hong Kong patriots
  • Macanese patriots
  • All patriotic descendants of Yan and Huang around the world
Notice the key use of the word 'patriot'.
 

texx1

Junior Member
what difference does that make? comparing with the current military drill and banning of export/imports? in fact, the hated "惠台" policy has come to an end.

Mainland banning some products from Taiwan doesn't mean "惠台" policy has ended. Actually, "惠台" policy won't be terminated because too many fatcats are profiting off it. Don't expect Taiwan Affairs Office to really help with the reunification effort just as DEA won't really win the war on drugs.
 

canniBUS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese who are not loyal to the Five Star Red Flag and Chinese Communist Party are not real Chinese.

Zhonghua Minzu 中华民族 consists of:
  • 56 ethnicities on the mainland
  • Taiwanese patriots
  • Hong Kong patriots
  • Macanese patriots
  • All patriotic descendants of Yan and Huang around the world
Notice the key use of the word 'patriot'.
The stars on the flag represent the CPC (large star) and the 4 revolutionary classes, workers, peasants, petite bourgeoisie, and national bourgeoisie. They do not represent Chinese living in different places.

But I agree that we should shed no tears for political enemies.

Edit: Nvm you did not imply the stars represented the 中华民族, apologies for misreading your post.
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
The stars on the flag represent the CPC (large start) and the 4 revolutionary classes, workers, peasants, petite bourgeoisie, and national bourgeoisie. They do not represent ethnic groups.

But I agree that we should shed no tears for political enemies.
I didn't say they represented ethnic groups. I am saying the PRC is the rightful inheritor of the ancient nation state of 'China', and as an ethnic Chinese your loyalty therefore lies first and foremost with the PRC regardless of where you were born or currently reside.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Now someone please enlighten me. Mainland does not even recognize the secessionist regime. Why does it care about its honorary medals?

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English Vegi gave an grand medal of honor to Pelosi. The spokesperson of CPC's office on Taiwan (国台办) "protested strongly" in a press briefing.

蔡英文给佩洛西颁发“特种大绶卿云勋章”,国台办强烈抗议​

 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It would be better if we reunite peacefully than get involved in years long occupation war that may or may not involve the US. If it comes to AR, the number of civilian deaths would be unacceptable. As much as this was a more distant consideration before yesterday, the reality that AR has become a more lucid possibility should make pro ccp people reflect on what it truly means.

We aren't Russian and ought not be cruel enough to justify the deaths of other Chinese folks who happen to be our political enemies. Are you wishing for the ccp to get its hands bloody with a genuine invasion of Taiwan? If that's the case, I would hope for the US to get involved so that at the very least a showdown with the US is earned from a china on china war. Winning that US china conflict is the primary goal. Without the US being open to getting hurt and getting surpassed, it would be PRC killing ROC, at great cost to PRC I might add.

Retaking Taiwan is also symbolic. If you don't win the heart and minds of the islanders you can't exactly reunite in the full sense of that word. Defeating the US is a greater task and resolves the civil war conflict. If PRC is ready and wanting to perform AR if should be ready to defeat the US in western Pacific otherwise it would be a long expensive bloody war that ends up not earning you any more loyal population and productivity.
Cao Cao: maybe we should let Wu go.

Hongwu Emperor: maybe we should let the Mongols go.

Abraham Lincoln: maybe we should let the South go.

Vladimir Lenin: maybe we should let the Tsar go

Joseph Stalin: maybe we should let Hitler go

Maybe let Taiwan go?

Answer to all of those: total laughter
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Status quo is gone and so is the centreline of the cross strait. Expect chinese force to breath down the neck of Taiwan from now on.

The ball is in Taiwan Court whether to fire the first shot which will result in full scale invasion

Peaceful reunification is no longer the linchpin of china's Taiwan policy.
@tch1972 correct bro BUT China act correctly, its a simple fact, we're not ready. People may feel disappointed with Xi BUT for me its another feather in his cap. A leader know when to strike and when not to, he see the trick miles away and he had the wisdom not to take the bait. At least it had given me the opportunity to travel and see @Loveleenkr ...lol

What will happen after,

1) China will rearm massively,

2) Will consolidate with Russia even more

3) will supply arm to those nation under threat by the Collective west

4) pull back investment from the Collective West

5) focus those investment around the global south , RBI , Iran and Russia

6) less cooperation

China had 3 years to strengthen themselves, no more dilly dallying and I think this action of Pelosi reinforce the Anti Americanism among the Chinese and I may witness a major conflict in my lifetime in the Pacific. :(
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Chinese who are not loyal to the Five Star Red Flag and Chinese Communist Party are not real Chinese.

Zhonghua Minzu 中华民族 consists of:
  • 56 ethnicities on the mainland
  • Taiwanese patriots
  • Hong Kong patriots
  • Macanese patriots
  • All patriotic descendants of Yan and Huang around the world
Notice the key use of the word 'patriot'.

In that case it's more about the land of Taiwan than the 70% or so of it's Chinese inhabitants that do not want to be a part of the PRC.

Perhaps if it's a choice between PRC or invasion that proportion will become 50-50 but it appears peaceful reunification is certainly less likely after the morale boost to those 70% of anti PRC Taiwanese and the salami slicing of the US and DPP.

The fact stands that these people are ethnically Chinese. Okay they're not loyal and will never to loyal to the PRC. So why reunite them?? It's about the geostrategy of the issue and the island. The process of rejuvenation and as a symbolic end to the Chinese civil war. Where the ccp is the newest dynasty with absolute power in china is without a breakaway claimant to the throne being propped up by the US.

But AR isn't happening yet. Clearly ccp understands the facts and in balance it is not ideal to do that now. Peaceful means is more distant today than a week ago but still a possibility.

Personally I want to avoid bloodshed of Chinese people. I've been to Taiwan and the vast majority of people are justifiably determined to be independent of PRC because they've coped fine enough on their own. You must understand the "enemy" and understand yourself right? Well let's spare some empathy to the average civilian. Forcing them to choose between AR and peaceful reunification may shift many people over but they'll never be loyal for generations. The ccp understands itself and the enemy.

The conclusion seems to be bluff for as long as possible so that Taiwan didn't declare independence anytime from civil war finalising to well this moment since they still haven't.

Perhaps the whole time it was a bluff just to keep Taiwan off that declaration. It bought PRC many decades and despite one failed attempt in the 20th century, Taiwan still did not declared independence. Clearly those bluff threats served their purpose well.

PRCs ability to AR is greater now than ever in the past. It shifted from no hope of peaceful reunification and only military means (with a weak military) to more appealing peaceful reunification but much more military capability to perform AR.

With this event is it wise to throw away that chance of peaceful reunification? Despite it being sliced down somewhat yesterday?

AR no matter what is going to cost PRC diplomatically and in resources. It will end the lives of so many innocent lives on the island even if it's a careful one.

Has Taiwan or US overstepped red lines to force AR? No. Let's slow the outrage and surprise. Ccp has a better understanding of themselves and what they're dealing with. What the better outcomes are and how to more effectively achieve those.

I guess some here just want to see military action. Others want western attention off their shoulders. Indians want china to get dragged into war and become isolated from western markets.
 

NeutralWarrior

Junior Member
Registered Member
Translated para:

Zhang Xuefeng said that this is the first time that the PLA has conducted sea and air drills in six areas around Taiwan Island at the same time. From the schematic diagram, the six exercise areas are evenly distributed around Taiwan Island, including the air and sea exercise area and the missile landing area. "The most important thing is that there are five exercise areas or missile landing points in this exercise. The area east of the so-called 'strait center line' is the PLA's action to deny the existence of the so-called 'strait center line' and form a strong deterrent. Once the Taiwan military responds, the PLA can completely 'catch turtles in the urn'."

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Translated article:

There are three "firsts" in the PLA's Taiwan Strait exercises, which have unprecedented shock and deterrence to "Taiwan independence" and foreign forces

The Eastern Theater announced that a series of joint military operations will be carried out around Taiwan Island starting on the evening of the 2nd. That night, Xinhua News Agency was authorized to announce that the People's Liberation Army will take part in six military operations around Taiwan Island from the 4th to the 7th. Carry out important military training operations in various sea areas and airspaces, and organize live ammunition firing. Military experts told the Global Times reporter that, unlike before, there are three "firsts" in this exercise, which has an unprecedented deterrent effect on "Taiwan independence" and foreign forces.

Zhang Junshe, a researcher at the Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times reporter on the 3rd that judging from the announced joint military operations, this is the first time the PLA has conducted long-range live ammunition in the Taiwan Strait. Strong will and strong ability to interfere and "Taiwan independence" separatist plots.

Military expert Zhang Xuefeng said in an interview with the Global Times on the 3rd that a point of concern for the firepower of this exercise is that if the PLA's conventional missiles are launched from the due west of Taiwan Island, it is likely to pass through the sky over Taiwan Island. "There is an area in the waters east of Taiwan Island, close to the east, which may be a conventional missile firepower exercise area, which means that the PLA's ballistic missiles carrying conventional warheads pass through the entire Taiwan." Island to launch."


According to a schematic diagram of the exercise announced by Xinhua News Agency, the PLA will conduct simultaneous military exercises in six areas around Taiwan Island from the 4th, and reminded that "for safety, relevant ships and aircraft should not enter the above-mentioned waters and airspace during this period", Taiwan "United News" "Net" reported that "it is like a three-day blockade of Taiwan by sea and air."

Zhang Xuefeng said that this is the first time that the PLA has conducted sea and air drills in six areas around Taiwan Island at the same time. From the schematic diagram, the six exercise areas are evenly distributed around Taiwan Island, including the air and sea exercise area and the missile landing area. "The most important thing is that there are five exercise areas or missile landing points in this exercise. The area east of the so-called 'strait center line' is the PLA's action to deny the existence of the so-called 'strait center line' and form a strong deterrent. Once the Taiwan military responds, the PLA can completely 'catch turtles in the urn'."

In addition, according to the schematic diagram of the exercise released by Xinhua News Agency, Zhang Xuefeng said that the delineation of several exercise areas broke through the so-called "12 nautical miles" sea and airspace of Taiwan for the first time, and may even enter the range of 10 nautical miles. "There is only one in the world. China and Taiwan are an inalienable part of China's territory, and the government of the People's Republic of China is the only legitimate government representing the whole of China. Therefore, Taiwan's so-called 'territorial waters' are also China's territorial waters. The PLA's exercise at such a close distance is not conducive to 'Taiwan independence' and extraterritorial waters. The deterrent effect of the forces is self-evident.”

Behind these three "firsts" is the continuous growth of the PLA's military strength. Zhang Xuefeng said that the People's Liberation Army now not only has a "crushing" advantage over the Taiwanese army, but our army also has enough strength, equipment, and actual combat capability to deal with the US military's provocation. This is also the basis for the PLA to conduct such a large-scale exercise in an area so close to Taiwan Island.

A commentary published by the "Liberation Army Daily" on the 3rd stated that Pelosi's visit to China's Taiwan region this time is another example of some American politicians stubbornly clinging to the "Taiwan to control China" plan and for the "Taiwan independence" separatist forces. The US will go its own way, and China will never sit idly by and will take strong measures to retaliate. Any targeted military action is justified and necessary.

Source in Chinese:
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Cao Cao: maybe we should let Wu go.

Hongwu Emperor: maybe we should let the Mongols go.

Abraham Lincoln: maybe we should let the South go.

Vladimir Lenin: maybe we should let the Tsar go

Joseph Stalin: maybe we should let Hitler go

Maybe let Taiwan go?

Answer to all of those: total laughter

Look if it is a matter of Taiwan hosting US nukes a la Cuban crisis, or becoming a genuine military base for the US, I'd be more inclined to agree. At the moment not even the slightest of red lines are overstepped.

Pelosi visited diplomatically. It is precedented. Some are interpreting this like us landed 10 nukes into Taiwan as an assault on the mainland.

Letting Taiwan go if it's a genuine military and security threat, yes indeed laughter at that notion. We differ on how we're interpreting the results and consequences.

If Taiwan hosts military equipment and troops for stationing then by all means AR is a forced hand. It really isn't a forced thing ATM. We can't force our own minds to think that's the only real path to security for china. That's becoming insane... Even more so than Russia wrt Ukraine. At least with that the western powers really were arming it secretly and it has been attacking Russian "states" for years. Taiwan hasn't done anything of the sort to the mainland in this century.
 
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