My best guess of this CG is that, it's just a quick solution to show that the shipyard got something that may be available for export market. But after last time they showed the model of 054A then got forced to withdraw it one day later, evenif there is a readily made model of 054B or whatever, I don't think they would piss off PLAN again. Cut and paste a CG onto the poster is far easier to show their intension.
FFG 054/054A Thread
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Again I repeat, it is not predominantly tied to the fact that who and where this pic was placed that makes it inadequate to make any realistic quesses over what it is and what it has eaten, but the general inaquracy of it. It is drawn so as if the artist just wanted to present a modern warship with some key chinese charrecteristics. If it would have image that would cleary present something concrete desing or concept, then it would have been more accurate in place of details.
Simple as that. IF something is made by hardly reliable source, it doesent always mean that it now gives one a excuse to undinaibly tie this to ones fantasies, "You cannot deny it, it comes from...." Even offical circles has lot of use to different type of illustration in order to cover, advertise or simply entartain. Basic logic is allowed to use when ever determing what something is and what it isen't.
Sadly I think that in this case it is so that you guys have determed what it is EVEN before you have seen the picture and after first glimpse you have begun trying to fit it into allready existing ideas and assumptions.
That is the difference in our attitudes, I never build anything in my mind and try to fit every possible evidence and detail to support those believes, and ignore them if they contradict it. I dont think that way, that is the way of how conspiracy nutcases brains work
Simple as that. IF something is made by hardly reliable source, it doesent always mean that it now gives one a excuse to undinaibly tie this to ones fantasies, "You cannot deny it, it comes from...." Even offical circles has lot of use to different type of illustration in order to cover, advertise or simply entartain. Basic logic is allowed to use when ever determing what something is and what it isen't.
Sadly I think that in this case it is so that you guys have determed what it is EVEN before you have seen the picture and after first glimpse you have begun trying to fit it into allready existing ideas and assumptions.
That is the difference in our attitudes, I never build anything in my mind and try to fit every possible evidence and detail to support those believes, and ignore them if they contradict it. I dont think that way, that is the way of how conspiracy nutcases brains work
As if you think we have not seen these things before and can't tell the difference? What is "Chinese characteristics" anyway and how the hell does it relate to that picture?
The proplem is that some of you just sees the differences and make far reaching assumptions based upon those alone. Have anyone of you sit down and tried to figure out that picture as a whole?
Like I said, my assumption of this picture is that it is a demostration of what chinese have to offer to export markets these days. Its a safe conclusion based on a) the ship shares somewhat similar profile and concept of current chinese frigate designs (054) b) It's systemfit is rahter vague, only showing the locations where this goes and where that. c) The ship has a OTO Melara gun drewed upon it which clearly indicates that its mented for export clients
the fact that it is presented in the exhibition rules out the possibility that it would be a fan art, I aknowlidge that. But its too "more or less" type of image that its most likely just a demostration of something bigger concept (the export factor) than single shipdesign alone for PLAN.
Not with a funnel and a second mast design like that, which to start with is significantly different from the 054A. The funnel and second mast design has no purpose in trying to illustrate "chinese characteristics" and are far too detailed, specific and deliberately different from the existing design because the existing design has both second mast and funnel built together.
The "Oto Mallara" and the AK-630s at the rear, do suggest a possible export variant, and yes an exhibit would be the best place to advertise. But at the same time, this model export or not, still shows the direction where the 054 may head. Certainly the model bothered with enough detail to distinguish the gun turret, the AK630, the 344 gun radar and the 364 acquisition radar on the second mast, it should be most obvious that the most clearly visible equipment on the ship, the top mast radar is also deliberately designed, not meant to "represent" a generic radar, especially when we already know that the PLAN is already testing such a very similar radar on its institutes and test ships.
If you really just want to show an export variant, why not just show a plain jane 054 with the Oto Mallera and be done with it.
Have you ever bothered to see what sort of other pictures HSH took on that exhibit? It included a very detailed CG of a new gun turret (too big to be uploaded on this forum and yes I got a picture of it) and that certainly is more than intentional. That does not sound like the exhibit is just to show for export purposes only.
You are trying to deduce from one picture and not walking back to see the larger picture which includes other pictures and previously known data.
Now that you have acknowledged it came from an official source, the assumption that this drawing is just a "demonstration" is just completely your own then, and is likely not factual unless that you can prove that being a demonstration is factual. By the way I have seen "demonstration" illustrations of Chinese nuclear subs and boomers and yet despite being "demonstration" were quite faithful to the actual photos we have seen of the 093 and 094.
The funnel and mast combination is rahter unique and distigtive charesteric of 054, in this model the solution is in fact much simpler one. It really isen't that detailed and spesific as its the solution to which any designer would first end up with if he is to draw ship of same size and with same systemsfit as 054.
Only thing which is prominent of the direction of the future of the 054 is the mast and funnel compo, if the design is about to adopt Gasturbines then they need to be seperate. Other features points more to the export-sector
Of those none clearly speaks it being directed to PLAN. The 344 radar is already almoust identical copy of the Italian Dardo system, the radome in the aft mast can conseal just about anything and the armament is so well distinguihsed that it reveals weaponsystems not mented for PLAN service.
I agree the radar reminds one of the new chinese radars on testting phase, but again it represents several foreing systems as well.
Well same goes your direction; If its for PLAN, why to use vague CGI with weaponsystems not in service at PLAN?? Why not modifying existing model and be done with it?
I would bother If I would know where to look. That gunturret certainly sounds interesting. Is there any means to resize that image? Or you can send it to me via PM or Email? (or just give a link)
Yeas, it is my own assumption, but it isen't anyway less factual than the other assumptions made from it, including yours. Not all what I say in here should be treaten as a law (only the red text
), but again not dishmissed simply becouse its the great china-hater who says it. The differences between our assumptions is in viewpoint and inturperation issues. It will be seddled once we recieve more information one way or to another. ButSEMT Pielstick engines, Sea Tiger radar, Castor 2 fire control, TAVITAC combat management system, 100mm French gun, HQ-7/Sea Crotale, etc. Regardless, I doubt PLAN would produce additional 054 class ships, so it's beating a dead horse here.
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Commenting on the recently posted pic and debate over its armaments...
Chinese shipyards have been known to build ships for export customers, to be fitted with western systems. The latest OPV's for Thailand is a good example, fitted with Oto 76mm gun and assorted European systems.
IMO if CSSC or any other Chinese shipyard release CGI of warships equipped with domestic or imported systems, that's just advertising. What you get in the end might differ depending on customer requirements and what they actually paid for.
Another Royal Thai Navy example, the Naresuan class (25T) frigate. I've seen older models showing 8-cel VLS in the front, for Sea Sparrow SAM. But in the end they were never installed.
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I don't know how it can be a much simpler one, especially if you are already building the first one, which means you have already have the production facility to produce the first type. Making the second type still means significant design changes.
That's what I also figured out. The only feature pointing to the export sector is the gun turret, but then, PLAN vessels do have changed the gun turret between model and final execution.
Foreign systems have a problem going into a Chinese made platform due to the exposure of techs, if you have seemed to notice the controversy involving Thales, the RC400 radar and the JF-17 fighter. Back in the eighties and nineties that won't be a problem, as you can see with the Nanshuan frigates and the F-7MG fighter (with Marconi Super Skyranger radar) but then China wasn't as much threatening in those days.
Broadly detailed models are in fact, used to foreshadow PLAN vessels, such as the models for the Song, Yuan and the 071, whether its CG or desktop model.
Its 324kb. Might have to post it in the CDF due to the file size limitations on the forum software.
Yeas, it is my own assumption, but it isen't anyway less factual than the other assumptions made from it, including yours. Not all what I say in here should be treaten as a law (only the red text
Here is how I would approach it with Baynesian analysis.
That it comes from the Marinetech exhibition. 100%
That Marinetech exhibit will have the shipbuilders exhibiting. 100%
That shipbuilders in the Shanghai area will be exhibiting. 100%
That the 054 series was designed and built by a Shanghai shipbuilder. 100%
That the CG is merely for demonstration purposes. Presumption no direct evidence.
That it represents an future export vessel. Moderate chance.
That it represents a future vessel. High chance. (Even export versions can foreshadow changes on the domestic versions).
That it represents a future PLAN vessel. Moderate chance.
That it is based on the 054. High chance.
That it may represent both a future PLAN or export vessel. High chance (both goals are not mutually exclusive).
Once you strip down anything that is not a presumption, you get the bottom line that the CG comes from an official exhibit and it is from the lion's mouth. That makes it a valid piece of information no matter what.
I have seen artwork vessels that are meant for demonstration purposes only. Quite often they don't resemble anything based on current vessels.
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