FFG 054/054A Thread

[darth sidious]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

If I remeber correctly, both the kongo and the Heiei were sunk by torpedoes. So was the Shinano, a carrier. In WW1, the british cruiser hawke was sunk by a submarines.

Ever heard of preparing for the future? Are you going to wait until your enemy has a powerful submarine force before you start upgrading?

the JAPS have no ASW what so ever if destroyer of two could have chased offthe sub. at that point the japanese nevy is already falling apart from shortage of fuel and lack of training

as for the hawk its in WWI also its already a 20year old ship at the time of the sinking it had no significe what so ever !

 

[darth sidious]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

actually, i have to make a note regarding the F-15Js, they are really not the best F-15s around, probably one of the earlier variants, they can't even fire AMRAAM and they are attempting to integrate an ARH missile like AAM-4, but only very few F-15s have been converted to using AAM-4. The rest are still using AIM-7. Same with F-2. (my opinion toward F-2 has already been posted in many places, lol) Also, I don't think any of the Japanese planes have Helmet Mounted display. imo, Japanese air force faces quantative and qualitative disadvantage vs 4th generation planes of pla.

Korean is a different issue. F-15K is one of the most advanced F-15s around. And I would say the south korean F-16s are probably more advanced than the Japanese F-2 also.

the F-15K are too few in number only 40 again it lack helemt mounted sight. as for their F-16 again too little too late not enough to combat teh masses of flankers and the 150J-10 of the PLAF

 

[PanAsian]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

Despite being somewhat off-topic I think we have a good discussion going on here.

Darth, I would like to remind you that China doesn't necessarily have a quantitative advantage over its Asian neighbors because China actually has a much larger area to defend. And the minority of its forces are first rate units.

Qualitatively it is widely recognized that China's defence technology is not as advanced in most areas as its neighbors' supplier, the US, if not its neighbors outright. Additionally, very few systems in the Chinese inventory are battle-tested, and not even in Chinese hands.

I have to say it is obvious that China is experimenting with developing its navy because it is keenly aware of the realities of the situation. Otherwise it would be producing more units en masse. It has made leaps and bounds compared to its capabilities in the 80s but it is nowhere close to being developed, nor is it by any means comparable to the US, Japan, Russia, Britain, or France in terms of force projection.

The PLAN right now has a competent defensive force and that's about it. It definitely needs to develope more robust naval air defense and sub defense systems, and produce a greater number of platforms equipped with these systems in order to go blue water. And as I have said before and will say again, I think it would be wise for the PLAN to prioritize on improving the capabilities of their efficient platforms such as frigates and subs before investing in costly experiments such as a carrier. So the 054 as well as the other new frigates and destroyers are all examples of going in the right direction.

 

[Gollevainen]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

As it is mentioned, we are far too off-topic and i apologizes that I was the one leading us to there.

If you want to continue discussing about PLAN ability to against Japanese or Korean fleet, open a new thread on the issue.
Perhaps i will do it...but if someone continues this ramble in this thread, it will be deleted as any other offtopic content.

 

[Sea Dog]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

It would make more sense moneywise for the 054 to use indigenous heliecopters, it would cost more money to buy ka-28s. But then China may want a more advanced helicopter than the Z-8.

I'm curious to this aspect of the 054 FFG. It would make sense to use a more indigenous design, but will one be ready in time to accomodate 054 inception? I actually thought PLAN would be interested in using the Ka-28. It's not a bad helo at all and is quite useful in the ASW role.

 

[vincelee]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

the first production Z-9C rolled off in the late 90s. I never understood just why doesn't Harbin crank them out like the J-7s. I think most 9C's are still of the original French construction.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

the first production Z-9C rolled off in the late 90s. I never understood just why doesn't Harbin crank them out like the J-7s. I think most 9C's are still of the original French construction.

The problem is that we got like 6 Z-9C? That's just sad. Anyhow, the production rate for Z-9 actually reached an alltime high of 7 per month in January, but that's far from enough if you think about it. The majority of the Z-9s rolling off the line are the Z-9G that's equipping the army. Seems like pla is trying to get as many Z-9G as possible while Z-10 is still not ready for mass production. So, Z-9C/naval aviation is put on the backburner as usual. Either way, I'd imagine the 054s to be equipped a ka-28 or Z-9C though, because they are the designated ASW frigates in plan (sad, I know). Why isn't there more ka-28? China is being cheap? I think the main reason is that they don't think ka-28 is the most modern design. They are probably just waiting for Z-15 naval version or Z-10 naval version to come out.

 

[duskylim]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

Hi Guys!

I always was under the impression that the distinguishing characteristics of the 054A's would be the vertical launched SAMs, planar phased array radar, type 730 CIWS as well as various other (much less visible) upgrades. By which I mean sensors, command and control, electronic warfare, automation, and even better ASW. I presumed that with the developement of the C80X series of AShM, ASHW was pretty much adequate.

I drew these conclusions from the Chinese Military Aviation and Sinodefence sites. In particular CMA which has for a long time posted what purports to be a actual model of the future 054A.

The only other news I've heard is the pictures posted from the Kanwa website that are supposed to be the new frigates being built.

So, is the ship being built actually the new 054A? And if so which of the original specifications are to met?

Thanks and Best Regards

 

[MIGleader]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

were pretty sure of the VLS SAM part. I dont know about the 730 though. The original only had one Rice lamp radar to guide its 4 ak-630s, which i guess means the guns can fire only in one direction at a time. 730s ought to solve that, if it is installed. Planar phased array radar? Probably not. The 2004 model ive seen doesnt have any. It might be the guidance for the SAM, but its risky to try to incorperate it as part of an AEGIS-like combat system. on a smaller FFG, an Aegis-combat system may perform sub-par.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Type 054 FFG status

It appears lately that we have seen two 054A under construction in the same shipyards that their predecessors were under construction (Huangpu and Hudong). I think they will be launched sometimes late this year or early next year from the progress so far. Now, this is what we are guessing so far:
1) The hull is definitely larger than 054 hull, some people are speculating 5000 tonne in maximum displacement. Since 054's hull is only 3400 tonne, I have my doubts. I think 4000+ is what we are looking at
2) It seems that 054A will be using 2 type 730 CIWS like 052B/052C/051C
3) although nobody knows for sure, I would think that you are likely to see 4 AESA radar installed on 054A like it is on 052C.
4) The SAM is likely to be 32 cell and hot launched (copying the mk-41 system?)
5) the missile is HQ-16 (not sure about its relation to shtil) and you will probably see the same combat & control system from 052C on 054A
6) then you have the question of its ASW capability. We know 054 is China's premier ASW frigate. I wonder what kind of sonar is on 054A.

Finally, what is its role?
ASW or AAW? I would say a combination probably.

Until 052D comes out, this should be the most important and most followed PLAN surface combatant outside of the much speculated Varyag.