F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

How would the UK pay for more? If you read the Daily Telegraph about the prospects of the UK economy .....

Well, two things.

We can hope for a rebound of the economy and that is certainly possible if the right decisions are made.

2nd, there are massive areas for cuts outside of the military. When I look at the tens of billions being spent on studying the mating habits of all sort of various creatures with tax payer grants, subsdidizing all sorts of failing energy and other sectors...which almost invariably end up being cronie projects for friends and donors, paying a staggering two years of unemployment benefits (where many people simply will not really try to find a job because they know they have a two year pass), the huge foreign aid being given many times to nations that are not even mildly friendly, etc., etc. there are lots of areas they could cut to get more money.

But right now, as with the states, there is simply not the will to do so and to make some of these cuts. Sadly, it is probably going to take a crisis of major proportions to open the eyes of the people and the pols...and because they will go into it so woefully understaffed and underfunded, it will probably cost a lot of land, time and lives before the difference can be made up.

Oh, well. We shall see. As I said, option one is still on the table and in these times of high tech, you never quite know what may be developed and introduced to help get things rollong. I mean look at Apple Inc. and the almost miraculous turnaround their entore company...and an entire industry...underwent a a result of the iPhone, iPod, and iPad introductions. They have revolutionized so many things and still command a large majority of those markets.

In the mean time...we have to make due with what we have. The Daring class is woefully small, but at least the technology and production capabilities have been retained and they could build more at a future date and the added capabilities these ships need have at least been designed into them so they go out capable of, but not fitted for them.

I believe for the US, the F-35 is going to go forward in all three areas and end up a rousing success. I also believe that other nations, as far as they can economically, will buy into it to whatever extent they can, and then hope for better economic times to round out their fleets of the aircraft in the future.

48 for the two UK carriers will allow for a significant surge capability over and above the apparnet 12-16 they plan to embark to begin with. And, one day. hopefully they will be able to double those numbers so they can routinely go outh with ate least 24 per carrier and then surge up to 40 each when necessary.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

UK should outsource next order of 6 DDGs to China. At least the labor cost would be cheap

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Two F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter aircraft from Eglin Air Force Base, Fla.(Courtesy photo)
AETC declares Eglin ready for F-35 training



by Maj. Karen Roganov
Team Eglin Public Affairs

12/17/2012 - EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla -- Following an independent evaluation of Eglin's capability to conduct F-35A Lightning II pilot training, Air Education and Training Command announced today the 33rd Fighter Wing can do so, starting in January.

"The preliminary results provided by the Joint Operational Test Team show the F-35A aircraft and its pilot training and sustainment systems, are robust enough to conduct the planned pilot transition and instructor upgrade courses," said Air Education and Training Command commander, Gen. Edward A. Rice Jr.

AETC will initiate syllabus training in order to meet Air Force-defined requirements. A deliberate process will be used that continues to validate the training system's effectiveness through advancing training blocks as they are made available by the military's F-35 Program Office and Lockheed Martin.

The Operational Utility Evaluation, which started Sept. 10 and was slated to last 65 days, encompassed intensive classroom and simulator training along with six flights, for four primary and two backup upgrading student pilots.

With favorable conditions to include "good weather, an accomplished maintenance team and talented instructors to train the pilots, the OUE process lasted only 46 training days," said Col. Andrew Toth, 33rd Fighter Wing commander, an F-35A instructor pilot who spearheads the joint and international F-35 efforts at Eglin.

"You are here making a lasting impression on how the team will execute F-35 both flying and maintenance training over the next 50 years," he said during conversations to wing members following the successful OUE.

During the OUE, experienced pilots transitioned from the F-16 and A-10 aircraft, to the world's first multi-role stealth fighter. Two pilots, Maj. John Wilson and Maj. Matthew Johnston were from Eglin's 58th Fighter Squadron and two, Lt. Col. Brian O'Neill and Maj. Joseph Scholtz and were from operational test units at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., and Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.

"Their performances were superb... that smile each student had after landing his first flight showed they were well prepared and the jet was easy to fly just as I had experienced with my first flight," said Lt. Col. Lee Kloos, 58th Fighter Squadron commander, who is charged with overseeing the squadron's daily flying operations. He is also the first non-developmental test pilot to fly the F-35.

The OUE was initiated by the Joint Strike Fighter Program Executive Officer based in Wash. D.C. and was intended to best arm the AETC commander with comprehensive data from an independent source so Rice could decide how to proceed with future F-35A pilot training at Eglin.

"The OUE showed the men and women at Eglin are ready," said Rice. "I'm very proud of both those in uniform and the contracted support who put in years of hard work. The culmination of those labors was successfully demonstrating the Integrated Training Center can conduct safe and effective flying operations in addition to academic training."

Training is slated to begin Jan. 7 with four 58th Fighter Squadron pilots and two operational test pilots.

The focus of the OUE evaluation team was on the ability to conduct pilot training but leadership agree they couldn't do it without their maintainers.

"The maintainers are the backbone of the flight operations. Had they not performed the way they did, we could not have finished the OUE about two weeks ahead of schedule," said Toth pointing to his skilled team in the 58th Aircraft Maintenance Unit and Lockheed Martin contracted logistics support.

With RFT declared, the wing's integrated training center gets closer to running at full capacity of 100 military pilot students a year along with the 2,100 maintenance students.

"We look forward to 2013 as we integrate the Navy's 'Grim Reapers' and F-35C into our flying operations along with our international partners, the Dutch and UK. The pace of operations will not slow as we continue to grow and we are ready for the new challenges next year will bring to wing personnel and it's F-35 Integrated Training Center."

Approximately 36 Air Force pilots are expected to go through the training program next year.

"The team at Eglin went through a rigorous process to lead the way for F-35A training. We look forward to starting off the new year with more history in the making as they put the JSF Integrated Training Center to task to provide a world class training program," said Rice.

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[Scratch]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I think about right now, the Australians declared 24 newly purchased F/A-18F, wich were bought as a stop gap maessure for F-35 delays, operational and are seeking information for an additional 24 SuperHornets, to cover more delays.
Should the get through, they will have commited a serious amount of funds buying 48 still very relevant fighters. I wonder if at some point they'll have to come back and retrieve part of that from saving on Lightning II purchases.

I hope LM isn't about to start loosing customers here ...

 

[delft]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Well, two things.

We can hope for a rebound of the economy and that is certainly possible if the right decisions are made.

2nd, there are massive areas for cuts outside of the military. When I look at the tens of billions being spent on studying the mating habits of all sort of various creatures with tax payer grants, subsdidizing all sorts of failing energy and other sectors...which almost invariably end up being cronie projects for friends and donors, paying a staggering two years of unemployment benefits (where many people simply will not really try to find a job because they know they have a two year pass), the huge foreign aid being given many times to nations that are not even mildly friendly, etc., etc. there are lots of areas they could cut to get more money.

But right now, as with the states, there is simply not the will to do so and to make some of these cuts. Sadly, it is probably going to take a crisis of major proportions to open the eyes of the people and the pols...and because they will go into it so woefully understaffed and underfunded, it will probably cost a lot of land, time and lives before the difference can be made up.

Oh, well. We shall see. As I said, option one is still on the table and in these times of high tech, you never quite know what may be developed and introduced to help get things rollong. I mean look at Apple Inc. and the almost miraculous turnaround their entore company...and an entire industry...underwent a a result of the iPhone, iPod, and iPad introductions. They have revolutionized so many things and still command a large majority of those markets.

In the mean time...we have to make due with what we have. The Daring class is woefully small, but at least the technology and production capabilities have been retained and they could build more at a future date and the added capabilities these ships need have at least been designed into them so they go out capable of, but not fitted for them.

I believe for the US, the F-35 is going to go forward in all three areas and end up a rousing success. I also believe that other nations, as far as they can economically, will buy into it to whatever extent they can, and then hope for better economic times to round out their fleets of the aircraft in the future.

48 for the two UK carriers will allow for a significant surge capability over and above the apparnet 12-16 they plan to embark to begin with. And, one day. hopefully they will be able to double those numbers so they can routinely go outh with ate least 24 per carrier and then surge up to 40 each when necessary.

OT
I'm sure you are wrong by orders of magnitude wrt the cost of investigating the mating habits of many species. And such research might, sometimes unexpectedly, be relevant to insight in the development of epidemics among people or in farming.
But you should certainly reduce subsidies - to the coal and oil industries for example so that new ways of generating energy can be developed without these themselves being distorted by subsidies. And subsidizing banks just leads to higher national debt without any return, while sponsoring high speed railroad lines, in a connected way, will lead eventually to reduced energy consumption as well as immediately to useful work for many people.
Unfortunately the recipients of big subsidies have enough money to buy the votes of Congressmen to keep to the wrong track. And that will reduce the chance of a rebound in the economy.
The situation in the UK is not any better. Look at what the bureaucracy did with the West Coast Main Line. This railway was run by one company and at the end of its contract it was to be taken over by another company based on assumptions and calculations that were simply wrong. The bidding had cost the four companies interested in running the line about $64 M. They will now be compensated by the taxpayer. Brrr!

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I think about right now, the Australians declared 24 newly purchased F/A-18F, wich were bought as a stop gap maessure for F-35 delays, operational and are seeking information for an additional 24 SuperHornets, to cover more delays.
Should the get through, they will have commited a serious amount of funds buying 48 still very relevant fighters. I wonder if at some point they'll have to come back and retrieve part of that from saving on Lightning II purchases.

I hope LM isn't about to start loosing customers here ...

So Scratch is this a recent developement, if this is the case the aussies may be making a decision to downsize their Lightning II buy? Oh and nice to see you back Merry Christmas and Happy New Year guys!

 

[Scratch]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Procurement of that first batch of 24 SH was initiated in 2007 I think, when in became apparent that after the retirement of the F-111 there would be a capability gap for the RAAF due to a later then exspected arrival of the F-35. I think the last one of these aircraft arrived this fall. This summer the australian gov has also exercised an option to convert 12 of those aircraft to the Growler EW version. Indicating that the SuperHornets will stay active with the RAAF for quite some time, wich totally makes sense, IMO.
Because of exspected further delays in the JSF delivery schedule, the Austr. gov is now checking with the US gov & Boeing for costs of acquiring a further 24 F/A-18F.
Right now the exspectation is for the RAAF to have only one JSF SQ by 2020. But they may have two SuperHornet SQs by then, so I believe it's reasonable to exspect a decrease in the # for JSF; short to mid term at least.

Canada just recently put it's buy of 65 jets on hold and may recompete the CF-18 replacement procram.

Italy, a year ago (or maybe 2?) reduced it's planed order from 130 to 90. While one of the party leaders that may pretty well take over after the upcoming election, was already mulling further cuts.

The Netherlands are also still not really commited.

On the other hand, Japan signed a deal over 42 jets a few month back that was not in the plans before. And Israel is also on the customers list now. SK might be another one.

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Procurement of that first batch of 24 SH was initiated in 2007 I think, when in became apparent that after the retirement of the F-111 there would be a capability gap for the RAAF due to a later then exspected arrival of the F-35. I think the last one of these aircraft arrived this fall. This summer the australian gov has also exercised an option to convert 12 of those aircraft to the Growler EW version. Indicating that the SuperHornets will stay active with the RAAF for quite some time, wich totally makes sense, IMO.
Because of exspected further delays in the JSF delivery schedule, the Austr. gov is now checking with the US gov & Boeing for costs of acquiring a further 24 F/A-18F.
Right now the exspectation is for the RAAF to have only one JSF SQ by 2020. But they may have two SuperHornet SQs by then, so I believe it's reasonable to exspect a decrease in the # for JSF; short to mid term at least.

Canada just recently put it's buy of 65 jets on hold and may recompete the CF-18 replacement procram.

Italy, a year ago (or maybe 2?) reduced it's planed order from 130 to 90. While one of the party leaders that may pretty well take over after the upcoming election, was already mulling further cuts.

The Netherlands are also still not really commited.

On the other hand, Japan signed a deal over 42 jets a few month back that was not in the plans before. And Israel is also on the customers list now. SK might be another one.

I was actually aware of all these goings on, but thought maybe they had made a decision on the second batch of Super Bugs, mention that on DT and the Aussie gents go a little nutso on ya, I guess everyone is a little jumpy with all of these cuts? Going forward it does seem that the JSF is getting up to speed and things are going a lot better on developement all the way around.

 

[Scratch]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Yeah, didn't mean to lecture you or somehting. Just trying to put on a very small track record here. Development & production seems to catch on to exspectations now, although that is a little late. Entire countries have built their schedules on how to maintain airpower on the prospect timing for JSF delivery. These schedules are now really in jeopardy in some places, so not really foul play on their part in looking for alternatives. That being said, if they buy 4+gen aircraft today, these are still so expensive that those countries won't have the money to do another transition to 5th gen in about ten years.

On the Aussie part, no decision as of yet regarding a second batch, for all I know. And I can't really blame peolpe for preferring the F-35 over the SBug. In retrospect, maybe LM chose a very bad time (finances wise) for being perhaps a little lazy somethimes with their buissness.

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Yeah, didn't mean to lecture you or somehting. Just trying to put on a very small track record here. Development & production seems to catch on to exspectations now, although that is a little late. Entire countries have built their schedules on how to maintain airpower on the prospect timing for JSF delivery. These schedules are now really in jeopardy in some places, so not really foul play on their part in looking for alternatives. That being said, if they buy 4+gen aircraft today, these are still so expensive that those countries won't have the money to do another transition to 5th gen in about ten years.

On the Aussie part, no decision as of yet regarding a second batch, for all I know. And I can't really blame peolpe for preferring the F-35 over the SBug. In retrospect, maybe LM chose a very bad time (finances wise) for being perhaps a little lazy somethimes with their buissness.

Rather than lazy, I would define it as over ambitious in their expectations, what are there 10 partners now? Each was invited to offer "options" for the JSF, in other words, we will build you a custom aeroplane, taylored to your needs, wants, and desires, for example, Air Force? ok we will build you and A model, Oh, you need a STOVL, ooooh noooo problem, we will build you a B model, what the A nor B will work on your Carrier, uuuummmmhhhhh, well, have you seen our Naval Version, oh yes little short hook, whadda ya mean that looks like we just stuck it on the tail, thats where its supposed to go, well of course it carries more fuel and has larger folding wings, yes we hired the same engineers that designed the Grumman Wildcat, why do you think she looks like a barrel with wings,,,,,,,, of course we can deliver it by April, how many can we do ya for? Get my point, thats before we ask you what avionics and plug in your weapons sytems, this is an engineering master piece, and everybody really ought to be happy, because they are buying a factory custom aircraft, ooooh wait, the price is more than the stripper version we sold ya, whadda mean its too heavy, we just installed the options you couldn't live without, of course we can put white walls on it, and baby moon hubcaps, no problemo!

The wonder here kids, is that we have a program at all? Really one airframe does all this, like your Swiss Army Knife, bulky, big, and don't cry when the fork sticks you in the groin. Master Delft called this one, to much fun in one airframe, like your Swiss Army knife, it will look good, but there are things on there you will never use? Oh and welcome back again, I think we all agree that we missed you Mr. Scratch!

 

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The wonder here kids, is that we have a program at all? Really one airframe does all this, like your Swiss Army Knife, bulky, big, and don't cry when the fork sticks you in the groin. Master Delft called this one, to much fun in one airframe, like your Swiss Army knife, it will look good, but there are things on there you will never use? Oh and welcome back again, I think we all agree that we missed you Mr. Scratch!

I expect the program will move forward and be successful. Very successful particularly given the economic times.

All three branches of the US will buy heavily into them.

The UK will get 48 for its Carriers and I do not know what their plans are for the Air Force proper. I expect Canada will utlimately opt to buy some, depending on what they can afford. Australia will, Italy will, the Netherlands will all buy some...Turkey, Norway and Denmark will all, I believe ultimately buy some too, though the numbers may be fewer than originally thought.

But, add to this Japan and Israel almost for sure, and then perhaps Korea too. With the total numbers built now approaching 100 and with the US Air Force and US Marines already forming up active duty squadrons, the beat goes on, and will continue to do so as the US Navy receives its initial production aircraft followed by the various partners.

Testing continues, but the fact that they are now entering production means the program is moving forward getting better all the time.

I have to believe that ultimately Japan intends to put these F-35B aircraft on their two new, larger 22DDH carriers they are building right now.

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