Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
No one is completely prepared for war. I don't think Chinese people will accept independent Taiwan It is redline and it is in the law of "anti secessionist " They spelled out when they are going to invade it is for everybody to see. So if US egged Taiwan for de jure independent China has no choice but to declare war come what may. CCP legitimacy depend on the following precept

1 Improving people life
2 providing efficient and orderly government
3 maintaining Chinese territorial integrity
Am I correct to interpret that you think CCP would initiate kinetic operations within weeks of ROT?

Do you really think CCP are fucking morons who would be rushed into battle? No, a conflict would be preceded by months if not years of economic strangulation.

Why would the CCP act according to the adversary's will and initiative?

Even Desert Storm was preceded by almost 6 months of build up. CCP can initiate a whole host of measure short of declaration of war to turn Taiwan into a martial law hell, where curfews and price control will suffocate every ounce of investment and growth out of the ROT economy. Forget semiconductors, you can't even buy fuel.

What is US going to do? Build up indefinitely? Forever? Keep that shit up for a year and you will see SOFA problems arise.

Holy shit man, forget war college or CGSC, you need to finish officer basic course.

Legitimacy rest on the ability to kick ass and take names. The populace has faith in the highest echelon to make strategic decision for ultimate triumph. WTF would rushing into war only to get your ass kicked and economic smashed do for China's political future?

I'm sure China can "accept" a redline if they see Taiwanese rioting in the streets and beating each other up in congress. Oops, they do that already (the beating part). Let that shit ferment for a few months and years and see that friction between foreign troops who are not subject to price control and food allocations soak up all the chicks, and see how that cookie will crumble.

Shit., the mainland folk would watch with glee as the mofos tare each other apart, without a PLA dead or injured or a round fired.

I would wait about 18-36 months for US to spend itself dry, and all the ROCA garrison stay on 24/7 alert rotation to burn themselves out before launching the first salvo of munitions.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Am I correct to interpret that you think CCP would initiate kinetic operations within weeks of ROT?

Do you really think CCP are fucking morons who would be rushed into battle? No, a conflict would be preceded by months if not years of economic strangulation.

Why would the CCP act according to the adversary's will and initiative?

Even Desert Storm was preceded by almost 6 months of build up. CCP can initiate a whole host of measure short of declaration of war to turn Taiwan into a martial law hell, where curfews and price control will suffocate every ounce of investment and growth out of the ROT economy. Forget semiconductors, you can't even buy fuel.

What is US going to do? Build up indefinitely? Forever? Keep that shit up for a year and you will see SOFA problems arise.

Holy shit man, forget war college or CGSC, you need to finish officer basic course.

Legitimacy rest on the ability to kick ass and take names. The populace has faith in the highest echelon to make strategic decision for ultimate triumph. WTF would rushing into war only to get your ass kicked and economic smashed do for China's political future?

I'm sure China can "accept" a redline if they see Taiwanese rioting in the streets and beating each other up in congress. Oops, they do that already (the beating part). Let that shit ferment for a few months and years and see that friction between foreign troops who are not subject to price control and food allocations soak up all the chicks, and see how that cookie will crumble.

Shit., the mainland folk would watch with glee as the mofos tare each other apart, without a PLA dead or injured or a round fired.

I would wait about 18-36 months for US to spend itself dry, and all the ROCA garrison stay on 24/7 alert rotation to burn themselves out before launching the first salvo of munitions.
They have been preparing for war for the last 40 years what are you talking? In Korea war they say 38 parallel is a redline and true to their word They enter the war as soon as 38 parallel was crossed. That was time when china economy was 1/100th of US economy. Yet Mao choose to enter war knowing the cost it brought on Chinese economy. Economy be damned if the security of the nation is in peril. China preparation for war does not take that long because Taiwan is at perimeter of China. They have exercised for cross country mobilization for years. It is the US that will face long supply line once those forward base is destroyed! which they will


The following is the full text of the Anti-Secession Law adopted at the Third Session of the Tenth National People's Congress in Beijing on March 14:

Anti-Secession Law(Adopted at the Third Session of the Tenth National People's Congress on March 14, 2005)


Article 1 This Law is formulated, in accordance with the Constitution, for the purpose of opposing and checking Taiwan's secession from China by secessionists in the name of "Taiwan independence", promoting peaceful national reunification, maintaining peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits, preserving China's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and safeguarding the fundamental interests of the Chinese nation.

Article 2 There is only one China in the world. Both the mainland and Taiwan belong to one China. China's sovereignty and territorial integrity brook no division. Safeguarding China's sovereignty and territorial integrity is the common obligation of all Chinese people, the Taiwan compatriots included.

Taiwan is part of China. The state shall never allow the "Taiwan independence" secessionist forces to make Taiwan secede from China under any name or by any means.

Article 3 The Taiwan question is one that is left over from China's civil war of the late 1940s.

Solving the Taiwan question and achieving national reunification is China's internal affair, which subjects to no interference by any outside forces.

Article 4 Accomplishing the great task of reunifying the motherland is the sacred duty of all Chinese people, the Taiwan compatriots included.

Article 5 Upholding the principle of one China is the basis of peaceful reunification of the country.

To reunify the country through peaceful means best serves the fundamental interests of the compatriots on both sides of the Taiwan Straits. The state shall do its utmost with maximum sincerity to achieve a peaceful reunification.

After the country is reunified peacefully, Taiwan may practice systems different from those on the mainland and enjoy a high degree of autonomy.

Article 6 The state shall take the following measures to maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits and promote cross-Straits relations:

(1) to encourage and facilitate personnel exchanges across the Straits for greater mutual understanding and mutual trust;

(2) to encourage and facilitate economic exchanges and cooperation, realize direct links of trade, mail and air and shipping services, and bring about closer economic ties between the two sides of the Straits to their mutual benefit;

(3) to encourage and facilitate cross-Straits exchanges in education, science, technology, culture, health and sports, and work together to carry forward the proud Chinese cultural traditions;

(4) to encourage and facilitate cross-Straits cooperation in combating crimes; and

(5) to encourage and facilitate other activities that are conducive to peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits and stronger cross-Straits relations.

The state protects the rights and interests of the Taiwan compatriots in accordance with law.
 
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Topazchen

Junior Member
Registered Member
I understand your desire for self-sufficiency, but it shouldn't lead to complete technological de-coupling and returning to Mao-era of self-sufficiency and isolation and Cold War v2.0.... that's bad for China.
What do you suggest China do given that the US weaponised supply Chains to deny companies like Huawei components and put 200 Chinese companies on some so called entity list ?
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
They have preparing for war for the last 40 years what are you talking? In Korea war they say 38 parallel is a redline and true to their word They enter the war as soon as 38 parallel was crossed. That was time when china economy was 1/100th of US economy. Yet Mao choose to enter war knowing the cost it brought on Chinese economy. Economy be damned if the security of the nation is in peril. China preparation for war does not take that long because Taiwan is at perimeter of China. It is the US that will face long supply line once those forward base is destroyed! which they will


The following is the full text of the Anti-Secession Law adopted at the Third Session of the Tenth National People's Congress in Beijing on March 14:

Anti-Secession Law(Adopted at the Third Session of the Tenth National People's Congress on March 14, 2005)

Fuck the law, fuck all laws.

Laws have NOTHING to do with how wars are fought and won, especially existential conflicts that can result in the demise of the republic and all the buildup upon the generations of sacrifice.

Laws are there to rationalize and justify the execution of power and authority.

They enter the war as soon as 38 parallel was crossed. That was time when china economy was 1/100th of US economy. Yet Mao choose to enter war knowing the cost it brought on Chinese economy.

Would I pay in the equity and crypto market the same way if I had $100m the same way I do when I had $10k? Fuck no. When you are the bottom of the barrel, scrapping by for change, you gotta go ball to the wall, EVERYTIME.

This is the same reason why startup has to go high risk, all-in when Microsoft can just chill and wait shit to pan out before stumping in and reshaping the market.

China preparation for war does not take that long because Taiwan is at perimeter of China. It is the US that will face long supply line once those forward base is destroyed! which they will

The game is different this time. Time is on China's side. Look at the USDX, COVID, GDP trends, US is receding rapidly. Taiwan would be a desperation move. Fucking all-in, in the hope that it trips China up, and US comes out strong enough to hold out against an EU economically and Russia militarily. And frankly, there is no reassurance of either.

In such a scenario, inaction is action itself, as your opponent stress and blunder upon blunder, all the while speeding up their demise.

If you hold all the cards, then let it play out in your favor. The key to the US's strength is economic, and more specifically, the dollar. The dollar has 2 key functions, to buy oil and Chinese good globally, and the relevance of oil is diminishing.

If you can't this chess game after all this explanation, then I give up.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I disagree.

You don't need a actual war to break a US security alliance, but you do need a *crisis* to trigger this.

Say China has an economy twice the size, and decides to build a Navy which is also twice the size.
That implies 20 Chinese supercarriers versus 10 US supercarriers in the Western Pacific.

It should be obvious to Japan and Korea that a US security alliance is not worth the paper it is printed upon.

You haven't described what *crisis* would trigger an end to US-Korea or US-Japan alliances.

As far as I know, Japan and Korea were both occupied by US troops post-WW2 and their Constitution were crafted by US and both have deep integration with US military and bases. It takes more than batshit mean Twitter words to break that alliance.

What 'crisis' can break their alliance short of Chinese domination via war? Have like 20 carriers is going to break their alliance?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Article 8 In the event that the "Taiwan independence" secessionist forces should act under any name or by any means to cause the fact of Taiwan's secession from China, or that major incidents entailing Taiwan's secession from China should occur, orthat possibilities for a peaceful reunification should be completely exhausted, the state shall employ non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to protect China's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The State Council and the Central Military Commission shall decide on and execute the non-peaceful means and other necessary measures as provided for in the preceding paragraph and shall promptly report to the Standing Committee of the National People'sCongress.
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
You haven't described what crisis would trigger an end to US-Korea or US-Japan alliances.

As far as I know, Japan and Korea were both occupied by US troops post-WW2 and their Constitution were crafted by US and both have deep integration with US military and bases.

What 'crisis' can break their alliance short of Chinese domination via war? Have like 20 carriers is going to break their alliance?
No, you don't even need a crisis. When China has 10 CSGs, the Koreans and Japanese positions against China would waver and start to side with China.

Those troops in ROK and JAP are not a significant force, mostly for show/trip-wire.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Only a FUCKING idiot would let word on paper dictate how great power competition plays out.

No nation is entirely ruled by law. It's mostly by influence and power, the laws are there to put a façade of bureaucracy over the madness.
Please refrain from cursing this is adult forum not some backstreet discussion. You can curse all you want but if the CCP does not follow their own law then she does not have legitimacy at all to govern China
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Fuck the law, fuck all laws.

Laws have NOTHING to do with how wars are fought and won, especially existential conflicts that can result in the demise of the republic and all the buildup upon the generations of sacrifice.

Laws are there to rationalize and justify the execution of power and authority.



Would I pay in the equity and crypto market the same way if I had $100m the same way I do when I had $10k? Fuck no. When you are the bottom of the barrel, scrapping by for change, you gotta go ball to the wall, EVERYTIME.

This is the same reason why startup has to go high risk, all-in when Microsoft can just chill and wait shit to pan out before stumping in and reshaping the market.



The game is different this time. Time is on China's side. Look at the USDX, COVID, GDP trends, US is receding rapidly. Taiwan would be a desperation move. Fucking all-in, in the hope that it trips China up, and US comes out strong enough to hold out against an EU economically and Russia militarily. And frankly, there is no reassurance of either.

In such a scenario, inaction is action itself, as your opponent stress and blunder upon blunder, all the while speeding up their demise.

If you hold all the cards, then let it play out in your favor. The key to the US's strength is economic, and more specifically, the dollar. The dollar has 2 key functions, to buy oil and Chinese good globally, and the relevance of oil is diminishing.

If you can't this chess game after all this explanation, then I give up.
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