CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations

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Roodog

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Hi Xian

By allowing the SSBN to transit in plain sight to a place of suitable departure is in fact quite clever....it basically shows that the PLAN will ensure that a SSBN can be delivered to the Pacific whether in plain sight or covertly..but with the escort of a CBG and simply disappear in what ever direction its mission is dedicated to. In the mean time a full surface force can train in ASW chasing any tails and ensuring a clean get away for the SSBN. I would not be surprised if a couple of plan SSNs were a day ahead or so, listening and clearing route.
Basically this understood as a simple training exercise which makes no sense as the two units have no reason to be near each other...or a show of willingness for PLAN SSBNs to get safely to their AOOs

Of course just my thoughts

Roodog

But as an addendum, it has previously been acknowledged 'Thomas-noone and Medcalf note that the Type 094s noisiness would make it difficult for it to reach and maintain patrol areas where it could strike at the continental United States' of course getting there untainted is half of it :)
 

Xian

New Member
Actually a nuclear sub escorting a carrier group is standard. Its a major part of the ASW setup of a carrier battle group.

I know that nuclear subs are common parts of CBG - but SSN and not SSBN!


Hi Xian

By allowing the SSBN to transit in plain sight to a place of suitable departure is in fact quite clever....it basically shows that the PLAN will ensure that a SSBN can be delivered to the Pacific whether in plain sight or covertly..but with the escort of a CBG and simply disappear in what ever direction its mission is dedicated to. In the mean time a full surface force can train in ASW chasing any tails and ensuring a clean get away for the SSBN. I would not be surprised if a couple of plan SSNs were a day ahead or so, listening and clearing route.
Basically this understood as a simple training exercise which makes no sense as the two units have no reason to be near each other...or a show of willingness for PLAN SSBNs to get safely to their AOOs

Of course just my thoughts

Roodog

I know what you mean - but that leads exactly to that what i tried to say: a SSBN makes no sense as permanent part of a CBG.
Sure, the SSBN can use the air coverage provided by the carrier to pass through some critical areas but that has nothing to do with the role of a SSN as part of the CBG
 
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kwaigonegin

Colonel
I know that nuclear subs are common parts of CBG - but SSN and not SSBN!




I know what you mean - but that leads exactly to that what i tried to say: a SSBN makes no sense as permanent part of a CBG.
Sure, the SSBN can use the air coverage provided by the carrier to pass through some critical areas but that has nothing to do with the role of a SSN as part of the CBG

It's not. I think you all are over thinking and reading too much into the picture. Not only is an SSBN not part of the CSG it shouldn't even run along the surface like that.

What we see in the picture is obviously not SOP. It's Liaoning's highly publized maiden voyage running to sea this far out and I think the SSBN popped up to say hi and escorted her because she may have been close enough to rendezvous or maybe on the way back herself after an exercise on her own. Who knows but whatever it was rest assure it's not SOP.

The question is, is the Virginia class tailing her stayed with the CSG or continued on her merry way. ;) .
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
But as an addendum, it has previously been acknowledged 'Thomas-noone and Medcalf note that the Type 094s noisiness would make it difficult for it to reach and maintain patrol areas where it could strike at the continental United States' of course getting there untainted is half of it :)

The 094s noise are roughly equivalent to the Delta IIIs dB and her acoustic signature is likely well known. Her value would only be for preemptive strike only otherwise she would be neutralize pretty quickly in defcon 1 situation.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The 094s noise are roughly equivalent to the Delta IIIs dB and her acoustic signature is likely well known. Her value would only be for preemptive strike only otherwise she would be neutralize pretty quickly in defcon 1 situation.

You are making the mistake of assuming that the Chinese will only copy paste US operations manuals without being able to do any sort of innovation.

What do you think the entire SCS tussle between the US and China is all about?

It has nothing to do with trade or FON, and everything to do with Chinese sea based nuclear deterrence.

Why do you think the US cares so much about who owns some specs of islands in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the planet?

Because that is where China is planning to build its modern day SSBN bastions. Which China's carrier fleet will play a key role in defending. So I think that picture is far more than a mere photo op, and goes to the heart of this entire dispute.

If US client states own and control those islands, the US could and will set up SOSUS networks all along the SCS and there won't be anything China could do about it as it will be within the 12nm territorial sea and 200nm EEZ of those islands (and make no mistake, if anyone other than China was in control, those specs would have been declare full fledged islands entitle to everything they could possibly be entitle to).

That was why Hillary sabotaged China's attempt to peacefully resolve the dispute, and instead incited the likes of Vietnam and the Philipines to go on a land grabbing frenzy. It was no accident that that happened after China built its biggest SSBN base on Hainan island. Doesn't take a genius to work out what China would have been planning with such a move, and the whole SCS issue was the US trying to literally throw a net over any Chinese attempts to 'break out' of its first island chain chockhold.

That is also why China declared the SCS a core national interest, pushed back so hard and invested so much to build up its exisiting island holdings.

China is building the mother of all bastions in the SCS, anchored by its expanded islands, and quarter-backed by its future carrier fleet. With swarms of ASW 056s filling in the gaps, which will be acting as mobile launch pads for land based ASW helicopters from those islands and/or PLAN carriers and LHDs. Hell, you will probably also see Chinese SSKs effectively home ported to those islands in the future.

China may well put its own SOSUS network in place to add in some overkill.

Virginians and Sea Wolves would be welcome try and tail Chinese subs into that ASW death trap, but if they do venture in, they will have to get past multiple layers of ASW detection nets, and will be cut off from friendly air and surface support in the event things really kick off.

At best, that makes those Virginias and Sea Wolves tailing Chinese SSBNs going on a one-way suicide mission, but far more likely would be that those USN subs would get detected and tailed themselves when trying to break into the bastion and suddenly everyone got a gun pointed to the back of their heads, and its a matter of pot luck who gets the first shot off or survives if the shooting starts.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Also that - the carrier escorting the SSBN - doesn't make sense for me!
A SSBN want to stay undetected.... it doesn't want a large eye catcher like a carrier in her neck!

May be they made some formation exercises together but I'm almost sure that the SSBN was not part of the Carrier Escort Group nor was the Carrier any kind of Escort for the SSBN...

Just my 2 cent...
Exactly ! that does not make sense.

Liaoning CV-16 conducts a test of its wash down system during sea trials in 2012
CH carrier Liaoning CV-16.jpg
 
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