Absolutely frigging Amen to that!
CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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superdog
Junior Member
I believe there are four types of helos on the Liaoning, Z-18 ASW, Z-18 AEW, Z-18 transport, and Z-9 transport. The numbers are not clear.
The faster Z-9 is probably dedicated for SAR and as a shuttle within the fleet, the Z-18 ASW and AEW may double as a SAR aircraft if necessary because they also have a hoist, but interestingly the Z-18 transport doesn't have a hoist, probably because it is in VIP config with all airliner seats?
Jeff, because the CBG also have ASW-Capacity, you don't need so much with the carrier. The ASW of the carrier should be the last detecting chance in case of breaking the CBG defefence. So two ASW should be enough with the carrier.
I would add AEW instead. To have a circle of AEW helos around the clock ~200 kms from the carrier, in front, sideward and back.
An AEW Aircraft have a range much more important than a AEW helo
E-2C with APS-145 : 250 - 370 fighter 3/5 m2 RCS - 550 km about 10 m2 range dépends target size, E-2D with new APY-9/AESA up to 650 km.
Sea King Asac7 and Ka-31 vs fighter/5 m2 150 km
A difference...
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A bit too much
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6
4
2
For Aviation fuel, ordnance stowage :
The Kuznetsov thinking same for Liaoning* carry 2500 t fuel aviation for comparison
Nimitz 9000 t but different CVN, more big
Queen Elisabeth a little more big 70000 t vs 61000 t : 5000 t fuel for ship + 3600 fuel av.
So Kunznetsov have a clear more low cargo capacity
*I don' t think fuel tanks completely at the bottom of the ship has been or much modified maybe a capacity a little more important 3000 t ?
I don' t have number for ordnance for aircrafts always more diffficult to find than fuel.
Until the commissioning of the 055, no other carrier escorts is able to have embark a ASW helicopter as capable as the Z18. The Z9 not only lack endurance but also the ability to carry the sensor suite needed to do the job effectively and when the Z20 does finally end up having an ASW version built, the Z18 would still be able to outmatch it. The Z18 ASW is the PLAN equivalent of the S3A Viking "not as effective" in terms of endurance and capablity but nevertheless task with the job of sweeping the area far from the battle group of subs and able to work independently.
No comparison with S-3 especialy for range Z-18F is equivalent to EH-101 ASW which can be armed also with 4 torpedoes and same size.
That why i quote not as effective and i agree the Z18F is the equivalent of the EJ-101 ASW. What i was trying to highlight is the Z18 would have the ablity to sweep an area far from the carrier battle group like what the S3Vikings are task with but with much reduce range and endurance.
China lacks a good carrier based AEW system that's why I was hoping that CV-17 would have a catapult on the angled deck so that it can launch a E-2 like platform. The Z-18 helicopter platform is better than nothing but its no where as effective as a fixed wing platform. But doesn't the PLAN have land based fixed wing AEW systems ?
I think China should at the moment concentrate more on building up its sub fleet rather than its surface fleet. China's surface fleet is already quite impressive but the sub fleet is too outdated. Today ASW is the weak link of the Chinese navy.
I think China should at the moment concentrate more on building up its sub fleet rather than its surface fleet. China's surface fleet is already quite impressive but the sub fleet is too outdated. Today ASW is the weak link of the Chinese navy.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Since the Liaoning operational area is 1st and 2nd Island chain, having Z18-J as AEW is more than adequate.
Together with type 346 radar on Liaoning, it has around 800Km radius of surveillance
Combined with ground based KJ500H and data link it will extend another 400 km.
Yes China need to improve the ASW capability by deploying as many as possible better ASW helicopter I think Z15 medium Heli(7,5t) would be perfect since it has larger load capacity, endurance, faster,roomy and can be ready in 1 year according to the brochure. it would fit type 54 and type 56 landing deck with no problem
Those 2 type of ships are the front line ASW ships and produced in large number. Add to that the Y8Q MPA and the seeded buoy sensor in the 1st island chain, it will definitely improve the ASW PLAN capability
People make too much of MIL standard but the trend today is for COTS . There are many example of aircraft start their life as civilian but then appropriate for military duty In fact another Avicopter product Y12 is a good example. It is now used in PLAAF to replace Y5
Here is an excellent article about improving PLAN ASW
Excerpt
A decade ago, the PLA Navy may have had as few as a couple of dozen large Z-8 helicopters, progenitor of the new Z-18F. However, production was radically increased in the 2004-07 time frame, according to the 2014 covers story in Modern Ships, indicative of a new priority for naval aviation. The same article highlights the much more prominent surface search radar on the new helicopter’s chin. This radar is said to be capable of picking up submarine masts and periscopes at ranges of at least 40-70 km. A rather on the Z-18F appeared in another prominent defense magazine, 航空知识 [Aerospace Knowledge] in late 2014. This report seems to confirm a graphic that accompanied the Modern Ships report, which had previously suggested that the Z-18F could heft up to four ASW torpedoes—a significant improvement over its predecessor, the Z-8. Perhaps some skepticism is warranted on this point given perennial difficulties with Chinese helicopter engines. The same report also suggests that the Z-18F will likely have more sonobuoy dispensers than the U.S. Navy’s SH-60 Sea Hawk. The author says its size may imply that only the European EH-101 has comparable range and capabilities. According to this report, the
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