Crisis in the Ukraine

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thunderchief

Senior Member
Heavy fighting around Donetsk airport. According to the rebel sources, they have captured most of it - take with the grain of salt. But if Ukrainian army really loses this it would be disastrous for them - some of their best troops are stationed on Donetsk and Lugansk airports.

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pla101prc

Senior Member
Heavy fighting around Donetsk airport. According to the rebel sources, they have captured most of it - take with the grain of salt. But if Ukrainian army really loses this it would be disastrous for them - some of their best troops are stationed on Donetsk and Lugansk airports.

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sources on twitter saying the airport was captured by NAF. it was only a matter of time though. i think the ukrainian commanders were smart enough to withdraw most of their forces prior to the final assault. no point in holding the airport really it was about the only stronghold around donetsk that remained in the hands of government troops.
 
yesterday I posted the report of an assassination attempt http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-56-6939.html#post302980, now I add the report of yet another "new element" in the conflict: at around 1520 local time today, one or two Ukrainian Coast Guard cutters were attacked (the article doesn't claim who, nor how, did it) while at sea in Mariupol area; according to:
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EDIT
I found the video related to this event:
[video=youtube;sjyLFg61UIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyLFg61UIA[/video]
 
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Most recently the article "Putin Made Poroshenko An Offer He Can't Refuse" appeared at gazeta.ru, I went through it as I'm getting ready for pub talk tomorrow :) ... kind of summarizes Putin's speech in a Russian TV station this afternoon and additional comments by
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... the article says the most important part is, not an exact quote here, "Serious talks have to start about how to organize the society and statehood of the Southeast Ukraine." (don't worry, you'll soon see professional translations in the media you follow :) -- that's the offer which can't be refused -- and it's also very important according to that article that Putin+Peskov didn't talk about
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and
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but instead about
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link:
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delft

Brigadier
The foreign affairs commentator of my favorite radio station wrote six hours ago on its website that we have no more evidence of a Russian invasion or incursion in Ukraine than the word of Poroshenko and unclear satellite photo's. In a time when high flying aircraft can take photographs on which you can count the mustache hairs of a corporal shouldn't we get more evidence to justify new EU sanctions and the build up of a NATO intervention force to which The Netherlands would also contribute.
This is a considerably different attitude than we usually see in Dutch media. It is of course my favorite radio station because it is better than the others but still - this gives hope. I also hope for a return of questions about the destruction of MH17.
 
The foreign affairs commentator of my favorite radio station wrote six hours ago on its website that we have no more evidence of a Russian invasion or incursion in Ukraine than the word of Poroshenko and unclear satellite photo's. In a time when high flying aircraft can take photographs on which you can count the mustache hairs of a corporal shouldn't we get more evidence to justify new EU sanctions and the build up of a NATO intervention force to which The Netherlands would also contribute.
This is a considerably different attitude than we usually see in Dutch media. It is of course my favorite radio station because it is better than the others but still - this gives hope. ...

hope in what exactly is it here, delft, please?
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Most recently the article "Putin Made Poroshenko An Offer He Can't Refuse" appeared at gazeta.ru, I went through it as I'm getting ready for pub talk tomorrow :) ... kind of summarizes Putin's speech in a Russian TV station this afternoon and additional comments by
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... the article says the most important part is, not an exact quote here, "Serious talks have to start about how to organize the society and statehood of the Southeast Ukraine." (don't worry, you'll soon see professional translations in the media you follow :) -- that's the offer which can't be refused -- and it's also very important according to that article that Putin+Peskov didn't talk about
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and
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but instead about
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link:
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poroshenko and the entire ukrainian ruling elite will have to do some serious soul searching. the choices between negotiation and war in present circumstance is akin to choices of national and self interest. but poroshenko must also look two months down the road, at potential changes to the current political climate before the election. accepting negotiation on the current battlefront will not make him popular, but continuing a war and possibly placing ukraine in a even worse strategic position in october could be even worse. the choices are certainly not great but i think a swift start to negotiation is probably the least sinister one.

the two republics have a lot on their plates too, not least are issues of post-war governance. lessons of libya illustrated the challenges of reining the militants who would certainly resist the idea of disarm. if they cannot make that transition then their prospects will be dim.
 
...

the two republics have a lot on their plates too, not least are issues of post-war governance. lessons of libya illustrated the challenges of reining the militants who would certainly resist the idea of disarm. if they cannot make that transition then their prospects will be dim.

yeah
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and
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are pretty efficient, I guess :)
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
you can count the mustache hairs of a corporal...
Cute Delft.... Really cute...

Shelling form beyond Russian boarder
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Kiev says one of it's ships attacked.
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Russian "Invasion" Dramatically Shifts momentum.
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Stuck in the middle, Donetsk residents stick together to stay alive
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31 August 2014 Last updated at 11:47 ET
Putin 'urges talks on statehood for east Ukraine'
Russian President Vladimir Putin has called for talks to discuss "statehood" for eastern Ukraine.
He said the issue needed to be discussed to ensure the interests of local people "are definitely upheld".
His comments came after the EU gave Russia a one-week ultimatum to reverse course in Ukraine or face sanctions.
Russia denies Western accusations that its forces illegally crossed into eastern Ukraine to support separatists there.
"Russia cannot stand aside when people are being shot at almost at point blank," he added, describing the rebels' actions as "the natural reaction of people who are defending their rights".
He dismissed the EU's threat of further sanctions, accusing the EU of "backing a coup d'etat" in Ukraine.
The West, Mr Putin said, should have foreseen Russia's reaction to the situation, adding it was impossible to predict how the crisis would end.
Mr Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, later said the president's remarks on "statehood" should not be taken to mean an actual separate entity, and that the Ukrainian crisis was a "domestic" one.
The BBC's Steve Rosenberg, in Moscow, says raising the concept of statehood in the east may be one way of Mr Putin increasing pressure on Kiev to halt its military operations.
Pro-Russian rebels have made gains against Ukrainian troops in recent days in the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Also on Sunday, Russian media reported that 10 Russian paratroopers returned home in exchange for 63 captured Ukrainian soldiers held by Russia.
Some 2,600 people have died in fighting since April.
Analysis: Steve Rosenberg, BBC News, Moscow
In his interview with Russian TV, Vladimir Putin called for "substantive talks" with Kiev on "statehood for south-east Ukraine".
So, does Russia now want south-eastern Ukraine to split from Kiev and become independent? Is Moscow now wedded to the idea of breaking up of Ukraine? Recent reports of Russian military activity across the border would seem to back up this idea.
But it may not be the case. Not yet, anyway.
There is no doubt that Russia is determined to retain a degree of influence in Ukraine and to ensure, at the very least, that Ukraine never joins Nato. Moscow is equally determined to make sure the pro-Russian separatists avoid a military defeat.
Promoting "statehood" in the east is one way of increasing the pressure on Kiev to stop its military operation and start talks with the pro-Moscow militants - and with Russia itself.
If Kiev fails to do this, the Kremlin may well press for south-eastern Ukraine (or "Novorossiya" as Moscow increasingly refers to the region) to break away from Kiev.
The conflict in the east erupted in April following Russia's annexation of Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula a month before.
Speaking after a summit in Brussels, European Council President Herman Van Rompuy said the EU "stands ready to take further significant steps in light of the evolution of the situation on the ground", adding that the EU was working urgently on further restrictive measures.
The EU and US have already imposed asset freezes and travel bans on many senior Russian officials and separatist leaders in eastern Ukraine.
Western sanctions also restrict loans for Russian state banks, block defence-related technology exports and certain oil industry exports to Russia.
Russia denies that its forces are backing the rebels, instead accusing Ukrainian forces of aggression and deliberately firing at civilians.
Several European leaders at the summit condemned Russia's actions and expressed support for further sanctions if necessary.
But Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb said the "jury is still out" on whether sanctions had worked, adding: "We need to find a ceasefire, a peace plan."
Federica Mogherini, named on Saturday as the EU's future foreign policy chief, said there could be no military solution to the crisis and that while sanctions were being worked on, the diplomatic process would need to continue.
Government forces have lost ground in recent fighting to pro-Russian rebels.
Western and Ukrainian officials say this offensive has been substantially helped by Russian regular troops, opening a new front. Russia denies the accusation.
War in eastern Ukraine: The human cost
At least 2,593 people killed since mid-April (not including 298 passengers and crew of Malaysian Airlines MH17, shot down in the area) - UN report on 29 August
951 civilians killed in Donetsk region alone, official regional authorities said - 20 August
In some particularly dangerous places, such as Luhansk region, victims are said to have been buried informally, making accurate counts difficult
Rebels (and some military sources) accuse the government of concealing true numbers
155,800 people have fled elsewhere in Ukraine while at least 188,000 have gone to Russia
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Ukraine says Russian tanks flatten town; EU to threaten more sanctions
Photo
Sat, Aug 30 2014
By Richard Balmforth and Adrian Croft
KIEV/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Ukraine said Russian tanks had flattened a small border town and pro-Russian rebels had made fresh gains in its east, as EU leaders signaled on Saturday they would threaten more sanctions against Moscow over the crisis.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, attending an EU summit in Brussels, said he was hoping for a political solution, but warned that his country was on the brink of full-scale war.
Russia has repeatedly dismissed accusations from Kiev and Western powers that it has sent soldiers into its neighbor, or supported pro-Russian rebels fighting a five-month-old separatist war in Ukraine's east.
But Ukraine military spokesman Andriy Lysenko told journalists in Kiev that Russian tanks had entered the small Ukrainian town of Novosvitlivka on the border with Russia and fired on every house.
"We have information that virtually every house has been destroyed," Lysenko added, without giving details on when the reported attack took place. Ukraine's daily military briefings typically cover the previous 24 hours.
Lysenko said the rebels had made new gains just east of the border city of Luhansk, one of the rebels' main strongholds, after opening up a new front in another area last week.
"Direct military aggression by the Russian Federation in the east of Ukraine is continuing. The Russians are continuing to send military equipment and 'mercenaries'," Ukraine's defense and security council said in a separate Twitter post.
Kiev and Western countries say recent rebel gains were the result of the arrival of armored columns of Russian troops, sent by Russian President Vladimir Putin to prop up a separatist rebellion that would otherwise have been near collapse.
There was no immediate fresh comment from Russia on Saturday. Putin on Friday compared Kiev's drive to regain control of its rebellious eastern cities to the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union in World War Two.
"NO TIME TO WASTE"
EU leaders meeting in Brussels appointed Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk as president of the European Council, giving hawkish Kremlin critics in Eastern Europe new influence in the bloc.
According to a draft statement from the summit, the EU leaders were set to ask the European Commission and the EU's diplomatic service "to urgently undertake preparatory work" on further sanctions that could be implemented if necessary.
French President Francois Hollande stressed that a failure by Russia to reverse a flow of weapons and troops into eastern Ukraine would force the bloc to impose new economic measures.
"Are we going to let the situation worsen, until it leads to war?" Hollande said at a news conference. "Because that's the risk today. There is no time to waste."
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said the EU was prepared to toughen sanctions against Russia but also that it wanted a political deal to end the confrontation.
"We are ready to take very strong and clear measures but we are keeping our doors open to a political solution," Barroso said at a news conference with Ukraine's president.
Poroshenko said the crisis was close to a tipping point.
"I think we are very close to the point of no return. The point of no return is full-scale war, which already happened on the territory controlled by separatists," he said.
He added, however, that a trilateral meeting on Monday involving representatives of Kiev, Moscow and the European Union could produce a ceasefire.
SHOTS FIRED
The crisis started when Ukraine's Moscow-backed president was ousted by street protests in February after he ditched a pact with the EU that would have moved the ex-Soviet republic firmly toward Europe and away from Russia.
Russia denounced the pro-Western leadership that took over as "a fascist junta" and went on to annex Ukraine's Crimea peninsula. Pro-Russian separatists then rebelled in Ukraine's mainly Russian-speaking east in April, setting up 'people's republics' and declaring they wanted to join Russia.
A senior U.N. human rights official said on Friday nearly 2,600 civilians, Ukrainian government forces and rebels had been killed in a conflict which has led to the biggest Russia-West crisis since the Cold War.
In Kiev, Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said a group of pro-Ukrainian fighters had broken out of encirclement by pro-Russian rebels near Donetsk early on Saturday, though other reports suggested many remained trapped.
Defense Minister Valery Heletey also ordered a clamp-down on information coming out of Ilovaysk, a town to the east of Donetsk.
Indicating government forces were being pulled back from the area, Heletey said on his Facebook page: "As soon as the danger for Ukrainian units has passed, all open information for the current period relating to the withdrawal of forces from Ilovaysk will be published."
Last week pro-Russian rebels opened a new front in a separate, coastal territory along the Sea of Azov and pushed Ukrainian troops out of the town of Novoazovsk. They are now threatening the strategic port city of Mariupol.
Several shots were fired on Saturday at a car carrying Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic, but he escaped unscathed, another separatist leader, Sergei Kavtaradze, told Reuters.
"Zakharchenko wasn't hurt. His driver was wounded and is being operated on," Kavtaradze said, adding that an operation was under way to catch whoever had fired the shots.
(Additional reporting by Pavel Polityuk in Kiev and Anton Zverev in Donetsk; Writing by Richard Balmforth; Editing by Andrew Heavens and Robin Pomeroy)
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Russia-led military bloc ready to send peacekeepers to Ukraine
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yesterday I posted the report of an assassination attempt http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-56-6939.html#post302980, now I add the report of yet another "new element" in the conflict: at around 1520 local time today, one or two Ukrainian Coast Guard cutters were attacked (the article doesn't claim who, nor how, did it) while at sea in Mariupol area; according to:
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EDIT
I found the video related to this event:
[video=youtube;sjyLFg61UIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyLFg61UIA[/video]

EDIT AGAIN
A moment ago I noticed the Separatists had proudly assumed responsibility for the attack:
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(you may check the painting in it)

oops, I made it a new post :-( sorry
 
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