"In the Odessa region more than a third of conscripts refused to serve in the war in the Donbass Ukrainian army. This was said Friday in a speech to the deputies of the Odessa Regional Council deputy military commissar of the region Valery Ishchenko. "
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Contains a roller coaster video taken of a breakout attempt from the Ilovaysk encirclement by elements that were not involved in the agreed retreat route but decided to make a dash for it, resulting in heavy causalities. I've watched the video and there's nothing gory in it. Just some wrecked vehicles and loopy camera veiw.
"It is remarkable that in the comments the Banderovites continue to yell that it was Putin who set up this "death corridor" for them, although those junta soldiers who, for example, were exiting from Starobeshevo after surrendeing their tanks, some of their IFVs, and bullets, managed to depart on 6 IFVs and nobody fired at them. As for those characters in the video, then they probably decided that the conditions for surrendering materiel don't concern them. Thus, they boldly rushed into a breakthrough. The majority of them, of course, perished. These people were killed primarily by those who gave the insane order (insane in that operational situation) to break in a column through the combat ranks of the NAF. People (even though they were enemies) were effectively sent to slaughter, due to which the few survivors now provide vivid descriptions of the man-made hell from which they miraculously managed to get out. But, of course, Putin is to blame. Yet, it was quite sufficient to give up the tanks and IFVs – and the majority of these people would still be alive. Well, and now of course stories will be told about how they "heroically perished for United Ukraine", although there wasn't even much of a fight there. Just slaughter."
"It is remarkable that in the comments the Banderovites continue to yell that it was Putin who set up this "death corridor" for them, although those junta soldiers who, for example, were exiting from Starobeshevo after surrendeing their tanks, some of their IFVs, and bullets, managed to depart on 6 IFVs and nobody fired at them. As for those characters in the video, then they probably decided that the conditions for surrendering materiel don't concern them. Thus, they boldly rushed into a breakthrough. The majority of them, of course, perished. These people were killed primarily by those who gave the insane order (insane in that operational situation) to break in a column through the combat ranks of the NAF. People (even though they were enemies) were effectively sent to slaughter, due to which the few survivors now provide vivid descriptions of the man-made hell from which they miraculously managed to get out. But, of course, Putin is to blame. Yet, it was quite sufficient to give up the tanks and IFVs – and the majority of these people would still be alive. Well, and now of course stories will be told about how they "heroically perished for United Ukraine", although there wasn't even much of a fight there. Just slaughter."
Kiev forces in an attempt to cut a vital road linking Donestsk to other parts. Heavy fighting taking place as a result.
Now there is a fierce battle between the militias and the Ukrainian punishers for control over the route Donetsk Gorlivka.
This route is of strategic importance for the People's Republic of Donetsk, as it is for her the communication with the group Gorlovskoy militia. Also, if the punishers can cut it, the garrison Gorlovka would be surrounded, and the position of the Donetsk noticeably worse. During the fight, used heavy weapons, including howitzers and multiple rocket launchers. The most intense clashes come around Yasinovataya. Currently militias try to surround the enemy's forces in the area Zhdanovka. Recall that in the first half of the day Ukrainian punishers violated the truce and attacked the positions of the militia in the vicinity Yasinovataya (see .: truce ended: punishers attacked the city Yasinovataya ). Ukrainian artillery was hit Makeyevka, while accusing the militia. Keep track of the latest developments in our Twitter-broadcast .
Now there is a fierce battle between the militias and the Ukrainian punishers for control over the route Donetsk Gorlivka.
This route is of strategic importance for the People's Republic of Donetsk, as it is for her the communication with the group Gorlovskoy militia. Also, if the punishers can cut it, the garrison Gorlovka would be surrounded, and the position of the Donetsk noticeably worse. During the fight, used heavy weapons, including howitzers and multiple rocket launchers. The most intense clashes come around Yasinovataya. Currently militias try to surround the enemy's forces in the area Zhdanovka. Recall that in the first half of the day Ukrainian punishers violated the truce and attacked the positions of the militia in the vicinity Yasinovataya (see .: truce ended: punishers attacked the city Yasinovataya ). Ukrainian artillery was hit Makeyevka, while accusing the militia. Keep track of the latest developments in our Twitter-broadcast .
Readers' Poll on Cassad and some of it states that most of the readers feel that the truce really benefits Kiev more than others, and readers are feeling negative about the truce. Hardly surprising to regular followers of what is happening over there.
Jura The idiot
General
addition to http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-80-6939.html#post304887:
Russian "alternative" group quotes its source, who says in the Russian TV news it's now forbidden to
- call Ukrainian president "felon", and
- mention .
Also
and
have to be referred to as "Donetsk Oblast" and "Luhansk Oblast". Looks like Russian Billionaires who invested into Separatists are afraid of
LOL!
Russian "alternative" group quotes its source, who says in the Russian TV news it's now forbidden to
- call Ukrainian president "felon", and
- mention .
Also
and
have to be referred to as "Donetsk Oblast" and "Luhansk Oblast". Looks like Russian Billionaires who invested into Separatists are afraid of
LOL!
The agreement was signed by representatives of Kiev, Lugansk and Donetsk and countersigned by representatives of Moscow, Minsk and the OSCE. That was a defeat for Kiev. The truce agreement was proposed by Poroshenko and its obvious defects - it just lacks the articles needed to make it effective - can be ascribed to him.
The miltia were not able to remove Kiev's artillery out of range of Lugansk and Donetsk even if in general the militia is tactically far superior to the forces of Kiev. Going out and liberate Kiev is just phantasy.
Time is being won and is of more value to the militia even if Kiev too gets to to reorganise and receive arms from the West. The miltia will receive more trained fighters. The result of the several cauldrons is very demoralising to Kiev especially the disaster of Ilovaysk. Phantasy is an important factor in Kiev. That let to these disasters and we now have Kiev's governor of Donetsk Oblast saying that the Russians don't fight in the winter.
Of course the interests of Rissia and Novorussia are different. Novorussia want to be free from the Kiev regime. Moscow wants regime change in Kiev and that should be possible but not in the short term. The coup in Kiev happened in Februari when one oligarch who owns forty members of parliament changed sides. The current situation is likely to let to more infighting between Kiev oligarchs while the economy goes down the drain. The political situation on the ground in the South, Odessa, and in the West, Transcarpathia, is also likely to go against Kiev.
The economy of EU is also being damaged by the sanctions and some EU countries, most notably Hungary, are pushing back.
The problem I believe, to afflict all sides, is an internal policy stalemate between the parties of war and parties of peace.
I really suspect that nobody in either the West, The Ukraine, Novorossiya or Russia itself, really knows how to proceed from this point. Cassad and the Saker etc have provided excellent commentary on the course of the actual conflict and provided much needed balance, when very little was being offered by the mainstream. These people are however very partisan members of the party of war and openly and unashamedly pushing that agenda.
For my part, my understanding of the internal politics of all these players is too superficial to be confident to pick the flag of one camp or the other.
If only on account of uncertainty and lack of clear policy direction on all sides, the ceasefire; wobbly as it clearly is, seems to be holding, or at least is being described by the key players as holding. Certainly, there is I suspect an understanding that the next person to make a significant move, would be the person blamed for escalation and would only achieve giving the other side the excuse to escalate in retaliation.
My gut instinct is that the current situation is probably good for Russia and the rebels. in this part of the world, Spring and Autumn are very short while Summer and Winter are both long and extreme. This means that Winter will be coming hard and fast and setting in by late October.
There are of course more than simply military considerations in this. Civilian suffering has been severe and the ceasefire is allowing more aid to flow into the Donbass, it is allowing the repairs of heat and power systems, the return of water supplies and the repair of buildings.
Maybe Moscow is anticipating a new winter of discontent throughout the rest of Ukraine and that energy and fiscal crunches are likely to shake the foundations of the Rada more fiercely than any Rocket bombardment could ever do.
I really suspect that nobody in either the West, The Ukraine, Novorossiya or Russia itself, really knows how to proceed from this point. Cassad and the Saker etc have provided excellent commentary on the course of the actual conflict and provided much needed balance, when very little was being offered by the mainstream. These people are however very partisan members of the party of war and openly and unashamedly pushing that agenda.
For my part, my understanding of the internal politics of all these players is too superficial to be confident to pick the flag of one camp or the other.
If only on account of uncertainty and lack of clear policy direction on all sides, the ceasefire; wobbly as it clearly is, seems to be holding, or at least is being described by the key players as holding. Certainly, there is I suspect an understanding that the next person to make a significant move, would be the person blamed for escalation and would only achieve giving the other side the excuse to escalate in retaliation.
My gut instinct is that the current situation is probably good for Russia and the rebels. in this part of the world, Spring and Autumn are very short while Summer and Winter are both long and extreme. This means that Winter will be coming hard and fast and setting in by late October.
There are of course more than simply military considerations in this. Civilian suffering has been severe and the ceasefire is allowing more aid to flow into the Donbass, it is allowing the repairs of heat and power systems, the return of water supplies and the repair of buildings.
Maybe Moscow is anticipating a new winter of discontent throughout the rest of Ukraine and that energy and fiscal crunches are likely to shake the foundations of the Rada more fiercely than any Rocket bombardment could ever do.
it's not difficult at all to see the danger of popular discontent arising against kiev as a result of economic hardship and war. no disrespect to anyone in particular but advocates of pushing all the way to kiev or even kharkiv is far beyond the capability of the rebels. way better for the rebels to take a break and watch ukraine's economy crumble.
as for Kiev, i think in the short-term it might be politically expedient to resume fighting in order to derail unfavourable public sentiments. i heard that kiev has a few strikegroups gathered in the east so there is a remote possibility of taking donetsk with a sudden strike. but this is obviously not a viable solution to the fundamental problems plaguing this country. i actually dont see a comfortable way out for ukraine here. i wonder what its leadership has in mind.
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