Crisis in the Ukraine

delft said:

Kiev hopes for early snow that will cover the evidence of the crime until next year and the Dutch government cooperates.

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Sorry, delft, that's a ridiculous assertion. The idea the Dutch government would be complicit in a cover-up of the murder of its own citizens in such large numbers isn't based in reality.

Also your following post accused the Ukrainian government of refusing access to the crash site when we know they've been pushed back from that area, so only the rebels could be refusing permission.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to retract either of your assertions?

if interested, see some more details: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-69-6939.html#post303962

This:

sounds little bit like a history

EDIT
just found

cheering time:

Last I checked there is a country called Ukraine but no country called The People's Republic of Donbas.



The separatists do not even have one single country granting them sovereign status recognition so you expect Malaysia to ignore international protocol and just negotiate with the separatists, ignoring the legal territorial ownership of the Ukraine govt?

The last time Malaysia send a team over they spoke to both the separatists as well as Kiev for permission which were granted. I fail to see any reason for the separatists to deny such permission this time around.

And Malaysian papers back in August already claimed that it was Kiev that brought down MH17





In case non Malaysian are unaware, the New Straits Times is part of the Malaysian govt's official mouthpieces.

Canadian-Dutch OSCE investigator speaks of being first at crash site. At 6.15 point of the video - "very very heavy machinegun fire" seen on the cockpit walls



In a nod to conspiracy theories, wide claims that there was a secret agreement between Ukraine, Belgium, Holland and Australia on a non-public disclosure on the findings of the air crash, with Malaysia being the only country to refuse to sign it.

Mr T said:

Also your following post accused the Ukrainian government of refusing access to the crash site when we know they've been pushed back from that area, so only the rebels could be refusing permission.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to retract either of your assertions?

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OSCE reported mortar fire from Donetsk airport held by Kiev frces.

From the New Straits Times

MH17: Malaysia will send search team to crash site

Mr T said:

Sorry, delft, that's a ridiculous assertion. The idea the Dutch government would be complicit in a cover-up of the murder of its own citizens in such large numbers isn't based in reality.

Also your following post accused the Ukrainian government of refusing access to the crash site when we know they've been pushed back from that area, so only the rebels could be refusing permission.

I don't suppose you'd be willing to retract either of your assertions?

Click to expand...

When first a Dutch mission were sent to Ukraine the area of the crash was whole in possession of the militia. The mission was helt in Kiev "because the situation was unsafe" until Kiev developed an offensive in that direction when the mission was allowed to go to Donetsk while the situation really was unsafe and the people had to wait days before they could reach the area by way of routes agreed with Kiev. At the same time journalists travelled from Donetsk to the crash site and back over other routes. The militia never denied access to the crash site. So you see my assertions are based on d**nable experience.
Sorry for the d-word. I'm somewhat angry.

Jura said:

cheering time:

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The Guardian talks about a peace deal which is clearly premature. Msm remains unreliable.

Dannhill said:

From the New Straits Times

MH17: Malaysia will send search team to crash site

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Click to expand...

I think Malaysia will investigate the area before the snow falls even if Kiev doesn't agree.

Mr T said:

Sorry, delft, that's a ridiculous assertion. The idea the Dutch government would be complicit in a cover-up of the murder of its own citizens in such large numbers isn't based in reality.

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That idea could not be dismissed entirely. Nobody is beyond scrutiny in this case. Dutch government could be compelled to hide the truth from public, at least some time. I'm not saying they did that and there is no proof for that for now, but it is worth examining .