Crisis in Egypt & Middle East!

Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

isnt jordan one of those super rich countries that hand money out for free?

No. It's not super-rich at all - it isn't a petro-state like Kuwait.

i personally think that's enough concession for them to settle,but since the opposition isnt really a unitary actor itself,its hard to say.

The protests weren't organised (AFAIK) by any group, so they can't call them off easily. There's no super-charismatic leader who can control the crowds. It will depend on how they react more than Opposition politicians. It could easily be too little, too late.

who here is from egypt or is familiar with egyptian politics?

Eh, what's "familiar" mean? If you have a question I might know the answer.
 
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Red Moon

Junior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

There is no organization which embraces the whole movement. But some organization is taking shape, and it looks like withdrawing the police for a couple of days was a mistake for the regime. All kinds of committees have been formed to keep order, help traffic get through, prevent looting, deal with medical emergencies, etc. The longer there is a standoff, the more of this sort of organization will evolve, and many of these people will be radicalized. Other than this, it is basically recognized that the Muslim Brotherhood is the best organized force, and probably the force with the biggest support. Yet, it is definitely in the minority. El Baradei has returned to Egypt and looks like a possible figurehead for the movement. He is a well known figure, and is respected internationally, but has no base in Egypt. This makes him attractive to others who do have organization and a base, but not enough clout to speak for the movement.

As far as promised elections, that's not till September. This would give the regime enough time to organize a smooth transition... to another regime just like the present one. Of course those people protesting do not want this. Right now, the army enjoys the trust of the people, it seems. I don't know if this is justified, but I would note that there is much talk about the army being "Western trained" or "Westernnized", kind of implying that "the West" also trusts the army. Either or both could be wrong.

One significant thing about Egyptian politics is that the regime has no "legitimacy" at all. He is not a monarch, nor is he really "elected". Mubarak presides over the Arab Nationalist bureacracy left over from Nasser, but he's no Nasser and no Arab Nationalist. And with the financial crisis and rampant inflation present throughout the developing world these days, especially where food is concerned, the regime is not delivering prosperity in any form either. Mubarak cannot stay, but the future is a bit of a problem, because for the US, and even more for Israel, he is kind of "irreplaceable".

The special problem posed by this "regime change" is that someone too close to Mubarak will not be accepted as real change by the people, and someone NOT too close may not be acceptable to the US and Israel. The reason is that his policy of state, i.e., his policy towards Israel and the Palestinians, towards Arab unity and towards the US, is at odds with the majority of the population. Mubarak supports the blockade of Gaza, which is abhorrent to most Egyptians overwhelmingly.

For this reason, while both the protesters and those saying the army is "westernized" could be wrong, I don't think both can be right. I don't know how this will end, and I hope it will not be a bloodbath. But if the protesters get their way, and a genuinely new regime takes the place of the current one, such a regime will necessarily take a different policy towards Gaza, Israel, etc. "Securing" Israel, from this point forward, may become much more expensive, both politically and financially. Especially if, as would seem likely, a victory for the protesters in Egypt would encourage even further turmoil in Jordan and Yemen.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

i think its too early to make judgements now...either way we are not even sure that mubarak can stick around til september cuz so far this idea has been rejected by pretty much everybody who prolly fears that the movement will lose momentum and the army will just ripe all the fruit.

i think the best way to solve the issue is simply hold the election now...XP. a no brainer isnt it?

while its all good that we have this democracy stuff going on, whoever is gonna take power ought to keep in mind that all the stuff that has led to the fiasco as we are witnessing isnt just gonna go away because egypt "democratized". jobs arent suddenly gonna appear because everyone is talkin nice and there is "hope". i expect the next round of struggle to take place between the alliances that are ganging up on mubarak now and it wont be pretty.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

I'm just listening to BBC World Service. The army is allowing "pro-Mubarak demonstrators" unto the Tahrir Square. I would guess the idea is to allow chaos, then the army restores order and the army commander takes over and organizes elections to have himself or a friend elected to be the next president. The army commander is a friend of the US.
 

zoom

Junior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

The army don't have the means to intervene. They don't have the training ,the numbers or the equipment.Seeing the police disappear and then a 'rent-a-mob' appear reminds me of Clark Kent disappearing and then Superman turns up.I think Mubarak is trying to divide and rule here.He has a record of bringing stability to Egypt and sees this as his strength after he creates chaos.Maybe the anti-government supporters have been too polite and should have forced the issue more aggressively.This needs to end sooner rather than later or the cause can be lost as people will feel a need to end the violence and return to normality as time goes on.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

it depends on how bad the violence will become. since mubarak says he wont run for reelection, but if the protest has gone so bad that the army has to crack down on the people then maybe mubarak will install another emergency decree saying there wont be an election or that it is delayed
 

zoom

Junior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

Sorry about this but can i just say that Mubarak's time is up but he is in de Nile.:)
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

it depends on how bad the violence will become. since mubarak says he wont run for reelection, but if the protest has gone so bad that the army has to crack down on the people then maybe mubarak will install another emergency decree saying there wont be an election or that it is delayed

maybe that's his plan! let's not forget he also has a son named Gamal whom he has been grooming to take over his spot.
Mubarak is actually quite respected in the Army. His role in the 1973 war remains in many people's memories. I know he is buddy buddy with the top military brass BUT I can't say the same for rank and file soldiers and field officers.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

I seriously doubt that the average Egyptian conscript grunt, after witnessing these recent events, would be willing to turn his gun on the crowds. He'd probably rather turn it on the officers, if they gave that order.
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Re: Crisis in Egypt!

I seriously doubt that the average Egyptian conscript grunt, after witnessing these recent events, would be willing to turn his gun on the crowds. He'd probably rather turn it on the officers, if they gave that order.

But without organization, its doubtful it would be effective. The real wild card is the leadership of the army. The minister of defense, of course, is with Mubarak, but I would suspect that at some level, the officer corps is divided, though its anybody's guess at just what level. It worries me that the army's statements are taken at face value by the protesters, and I just hope they're right.
 
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