Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is a fairly detailed report on a recent outbreak in Harbin, the capital city of Heilongjiang Province, China.

It occurred on April 2-9 with 36 people tested positive during that period. This is just another cluster by any standard outside of China. But yet, according to the article, the following officials were either sacked, demoted or reprimanded.
  • Vice Mayor of Harbin in charge of coronavirus epidemic control,
  • Director of Harbin Health Commission,
  • President and Deputy President of Harbin No. 2 Hospital,
  • President of Harbin Chest Hospital,
  • Vice President of Harbin First Hospital, and
  • 11 other doctors and officials from these hospitals.
As China is starting to return the country to normalcy, this indicates the government is still in high alert and will not tolerate any lapse of focus over any outbreak, no mater how small. Something for the government of those countries under the 2nd wave of attack to think about.

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Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wrote this post (and will post elsewhere) hoping to rebut the pernicious "accidental lab leak" theory. Hope the logic here can spread.

Debunking the "Accidental Lab Leak" Theory

America has recently began pushing the accidental Wuhan "lab leak" conspiracy theory. Journalists like Josh Rogin are writing scary stories. These reveal shocking facts, such as how the American government said Chinese laboratories were bad. Or how the American government is investigating whether or not Chinese laboratories are bad.

Scary stuff!

America isn't stupid, however. There's a good reason it's pushing the "lab leak" theory: a lot of people will buy into it. It sounds plausible, on the surface. The Wuhan Institute of Virology does study viruses, and the outbreak did start in Wuhan. It would seem reasonable to think there was a connection - that the coronavirus accidentally leaked from a sample collected from bats at the laboratory.

A closer look, however, reveals big holes in the "lab leak" narrative.


1. If there was a lab leak, how come nobody at the laboratory got infected?
Given how easily it spreads, a lab-leaked COVID-19 would cause dozens of cases at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. (In its offices outside the restricted laboratory itself, I wouldn't expect PPE to be worn.)

Instead, the outbreak started at a wildlife market. The Wuhan Institute of Virology remained open and continued valuable research into COVID-19. Few or no scientists got infected.

I don't believe it! China could have lied and covered up the laboratory outbreak!
Thousands work at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, or have family members who do. Not one complained about getting sick from a lab leak.

It took less than a week for Dr. Li Wenliang to report on coronavirus in the hospitals. Western journalists, such as Chris Buckley, searched every corner of Wuhan looking for a cover-up. Anti-CCP idealists, such as journalist Chen Qiushi, investigated all over Wuhan. Yet not a single whistleblower or reporter bothered to even mention the Wuhan Institute of Virology.


2. A "lab leak" virus wouldn't look like COVID-19.
What would an accidental lab leak look like anyways?

Possibility One: A coronavirus collected from a bat.
I doubt a lab-leaked bat coronavirus would have sustained human-to-human transmission.

COVID-19 has evolved "
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."

It's hard to imagine a lab-leaked coronavirus magically obtaining this ability. Bat lungs are not human lungs. Bat viruses evolve to bind rapidly to bat cells, not human cells. That's why there isn't a coronavirus outbreak every time somebody visits a bat cave.

How then, did COVID-19 become able to efficiently bind to human cells? Most likely by first passing through a human-like intermediary (e.g. pangolins). It also could have spread slowly amongst humans for months or years.

(
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of Wuhan pangolin research before this crisis.)

Possibility Two: A copy of a previous human disease (e.g. SARS).
If COVID-19 was a copy of a previous human disease, everybody would know. It would be an exact genetic match.


3. Like every big country, China has many laboratories studying disease.
Everybody's heard of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. But what about these scary-sounding laboratories?
Name​
Location​
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Beijing​
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Harbin​
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Kunming​

In 2013
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. (America has more than one thousand.) BSL-3 laboratories currently study the coronavirus.

If an epidemic occurred in Beijing, America would suspect a "lab leak" from the scary-sounding National Institute for Viral Disease Control and Prevention laboratory.

If an epidemic occurred in Manchuria, America would suspect a "lab leak" from the scary-sounding Avian Respiratory Diseases Division laboratory.

If an epidemic occurred in any Chinese city, America would suspect a "lab leak" from the city's scary-sounding BSL-3 biosafety laboratories.

Conclusions
Let's take a walk down memory lane, to the beginning of coronavirus.

Mysterious cases of viral pneumonia appear amongst scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Dr. Li Wenliang and brave NYT reporters uncover "new SARS" spreading in China's only virology laboratory. China hurriedly and secretively closes down the laboratory.

Oh wait.

None of that happened.

The outbreak occurred in a wildlife market, not a Wuhan laboratory. The Wuhan Institute of Virology is one of dozens of laboratories studying disease in China. It remained open, with no outbreaks, throughout the entire epidemic.

I hope the Wuhan Institute of Virology continues its strong contribution towards fighting coronavirus.
 

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not the only airline to think about it:
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During the stat of the endemic, I was flying interstate in Australia ( no lockdown rules yet). I witnessed air crew were not using mask and even no gloves when collecting rubbish from passengers. They were holding rubbish with their hands against their body. Later I found that a cluster of infection at Adelaide airport which include pilots, cabin crew, ground staff and baggage handers and their families. During the social restrictions period, air crew are exempted from 14 days isolation. This means they can fly continuously from state to state, country to country, then go out to public places and home without restrictions, while all passengers are required to be quarantined. Obviously an overlooked flaw by the airline or a cost cutting exercise.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I don't know why you guys bother debunking the "lab created virus" conspiracy theories. It's pretty obvious that certain American media and special interest groups are simply throwing accusations out there without a hint of concern for evidence. The goal is to influence public opinion and deflect blame from themselves. You don't need evidence for that, you just need a lot of money for a massive media campaign.

Let them spend their energy making those accusations. Paper cannot stop fire, people will realize the truth eventually.
 

Intrepid

Major
During the stat of the endemic, I was flying interstate in Australia ( no lockdown rules yet). I witnessed air crew were not using mask and even no gloves when collecting rubbish from passengers. They were holding rubbish with their hands against their body. Later I found that a cluster of infection at Adelaide airport which include pilots, cabin crew, ground staff and baggage handers and their families. During the social restrictions period, air crew are exempted from 14 days isolation. This means they can fly continuously from state to state, country to country, then go out to public places and home without restrictions, while all passengers are required to be quarantined. Obviously an overlooked flaw by the airline or a cost cutting exercise.
The measures in aviation against a pandemic are regulated internationally and are ineffective. You can't blame a local health agency for not daring to ignore international agreements. The Covid-19 pandemic was accelerated by air traffic. Aviation will continue to play a major role in the next outbreaks.
 
hadn't heard of "megadormitories" before reading
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  • Singapore’s Covid-19 cases have risen sixfold since the start of the month, due to outbreaks in crowded migrant worker dormitories
  • The authorities say hospitals can cope for now but are ‘stretched’ amid concerns over availability of beds, testing facilities, ventilators and workers

worldometers.info Last updated: April 19, 2020, 05:28 GMT

tn_sn-flag.gif

Singapore

Coronavirus Cases:

5,992


similar to Prague IF population size is taken into account
 
To my last point:
Asia is usually much more worried about spread


Just to add some of my own experience here.
A lot of the mask quality issues is quite simple.

Of course there are the dishonest liars and cheaters. It goes without saying. There are always those willing to exploit the situation no matter what nationality/ethnicity.

However, a big issue is the inexperience of buyers. Because they are not dealing with the usual qualified suppliers of approved goods, they don’t know the right questions to ask or what to look for.

For example, there are many advertisers of “KN95” masks. Unfortunately many of these are not medical grade. Just like the NIOSH approved N95, the medical grade KN95 should have the code printed on them like GBXXXX-XXXX approved or whatever.

The supplier is usually honest with this if asked. They didn’t do the full testing to get medical approval, but they assume it is your job to check this. This issue gets filtered down to local sellers who just say “yeah this is N95”, but they dont even know these details themselves because they just want to make a quick buck, or have no experience themselves.

In the end, the news just portrays the usual China as a giant monolithic hive culture. “These are fake N95 and the Chinese are out to get us.”
thought you might like the story (Last Updated: 2020/4/2 23:20:54) of
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for instance
"I think the quality issue reported by some media has been politicized. They can't prove the reported testing kits have quality issues, because the use and transport [of the kits] may influence their stability and sensitivity," an employee at test kit provider Beijing Beier Bioengineering told the Global Times.
 
I fear for overseas Chinese who lives in western countries, especially those working in sensitive industries in the us, they will be rounded up mccarthy style, and internment camps is not out of question, if i were Xi Jinping i would run a huge propaganda campaign inviting Chinese american scientists and specialists to come back to China, entice them with better salary than what they would get in the us and convince them that there is no future for people like them in the us in the new cold war that without a doubt have start

I doubt most Chinese Americans working in science and engineering would be able to be competitive in the Chinese job market. The difference in the pace and intensity of the work is just too wide. "996" is standard working culture in China, contrasted with the prevailing US workplace trend of, "work life balance." Starting with primary education, the Chinese education system is more suited for generating competent and productive engineers and scientists. With the exception of, well truly exceptional researchers and scientists working at top academic and research institutions, the Chinese economy simply has no need for the vast majority of Chinese Americans.
 
I doubt most Chinese Americans working in science and engineering would be able to be competitive in the Chinese job market. The difference in the pace and intensity of the work is just too wide. "996" is standard working culture in China, contrasted with the prevailing US workplace trend of, "work life balance." Starting with primary education, the Chinese education system is more suited for generating competent and productive engineers and scientists. With the exception of, well truly exceptional researchers and scientists working at top academic and research institutions, the Chinese economy simply has no need for the vast majority of Chinese Americans.
wow
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well there was a part in my life when (approaching thirty years of age) for many months straight I had been working (and pushing it, not just sitting there) every day (7 days a week, but occasionally there was a weekend off) from 10 am to 7 pm, it was tough, LOL, but ironically with even smaller number of hours than in
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!


originally came here to post this point of view:
Don’t bet on vaccine to protect us from Covid-19, says world health expert

Professor of global health at Imperial College, London warns we ‘may have to adapt’ to virus
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"we are only as strong as the weakest link in the chain" etc.
 
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