Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
I'll preface by saying I haven't made an academic level inquiry into how well it works or how exactly it works.

But it seems to be some protease inhibitor (anti virus reproduction) kinda like ritonavir which are well proven drugs, afaik there are already multiple on the market from different makers.

So purely from a mechanical perspective I don't think there's anything unsafe.

Now what is the catch, with such antiviral drugs, its that it is something you give to people who are very sick, so they have a chance to quicker recover. Or they may not recover at all. It is not anywhere near as effective as antibiotics is against bacteria.

The problem made by omicron is that people get fever for a few days, are unable to go to their jobs, so you have a big wave and it could cause temporary shut downs, like what happened mid December in China. Even if you distribute antiviral pills everywhere, it will not work.
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Pfizer Inc. plans to stop enrollment in a study of its COVID-19 drug in patients who aren’t at high risk of severe disease after the pill didn’t help alleviate their symptoms, a major setback for broader use of the treatment.

The New York-based drugmaker said Tuesday that it would stop adding new participants to a highly anticipated study testing
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in a broader population of COVID patients who are at low risk of hospitalization and death. The decision comes after the study failed to demonstrate that the drug reduced COVID symptoms among relatively healthy patients and wasn’t able to show a statistically significant reduction in hospitalization and death.

Just because Paxlovid contains some anti-viral drugs, doesn't mean it is effective for treating covid. There are many sketchy things Pfizer do in their drug trials, I'm not even sure Paxlovid is really that effective for treating covid in high-risk patients, compared to other generic anti-virals or placebos.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
China has a broad-spectrum covid vaccine in the making since April 2020 by a team from the Wuhan University. The vaccine is designed with potential virus mutations in mind. In tests it has been able to stimulate higher level of neutralizing antigen for all the known variants, including the XBB one currently raging in the US. The researcher is hopeful that, with just one shot, it will be able to protect the vaccinated person for 5 to 10 years.

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“这款疫苗有别于传统的单序列疫苗,有着较大的概念性创新,从本质上提升了抗原的广谱性。我们还会持续追踪病毒在真实世界的变异,但采用这种方式做出的广谱疫苗,比过去我们追着病毒跑已经好了很多,走到了病毒的前面。未来或许五年或十年打一针广谱疫苗就够了。”

通过追踪新冠病毒的进化轨迹,武汉大学病毒学国家重点实验室蓝柯教授和徐可教授团队设计出一种新型新冠广谱疫苗,或可抵御未来新冠变异株对人群的侵害。1月4日,该研究论文在知名学术期刊《科学-转化医学》(Science - Translational Medicine)上发表。

“新冠病毒和流感病毒有类似的流行规律,一旦人传人后在全球范围内传开,一定会发生抗原漂移,也就是不断累积突变。我们当初就认定,一定需要一款广谱新冠疫苗来对抗持续的疫情。”徐可对澎湃科技记者介绍,团队从2020年4月开始这项课题攻关,提出了“基于病毒进化共识序列,优化设计疫苗免疫原”的新策略,花了十个月左右时间就完成了广谱疫苗免疫原Span的序列设计。

后续的小鼠实验证明,它对其后出现的德尔塔(Delta)、奥密克戎(Omicron)及其亚系等毒株都能诱导产生广谱中和抗体,与原型株抗原疫苗相比更为高效,并且能保护实验小鼠抵抗包括奥密克戎在内多种新冠病毒变异株的致死性攻击。相关成果于2021年12月发表于预印本平台bioRxiv,并于2022年8月5日获中国发明专利授权。

近期,国外流行的优势株XBB.1.5和BQ.1.1在国内引发广泛关注。研究团队分析发现,Span抗原所包含的6个共性突变位点,在这些最新的奥密克戎变异株中仍有很大程度保留。针对最新变异株的疫苗中和抗体试验正在进行中。

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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
As though we need more proof that Chinese female diaspora "journalist/commentator" is one of the worst in terms of bashing anything China. BTW, I have no interest or patience to read her article. I'm just curious why her mother did not take any vaccine? Because she told her mother that Chinese vaccines were no good?

CanSino's mRNA vaccine is effective against some Omicron sub-variants during the phase II clinical trial.
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I suffered through reading the article, basically her mother suffered from some unspecified ailment that during the mid pandemic left her immobile at home with caretakers.

Misinformation *might* have played a role but I wouldn't entirely rule out that she was unfit to recieve the vaccine due to legit health reasons.

To make it clear, no matter how old you are, immobility is not a normal part of aging and it is usually an end of life stage thing. For a 80+ yr old to recover once they're near permanently bedridden is very difficult.
 

Jianguo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Azvudine is only 300 yuan unlike paxlovid which costs 2300 yuan at least. I believe Azvudine has been used in many lower tier hospitals in the last few days and should be available to everyone who needs it soon.
I read some studies concerning the efficacy of Azvudine and Paxlovid. Paxlovid was said to reduce hospitalization and death by 89%. There was no comparable study for Azvudine but it is believed to be much lower because around 40% of the study group was found to have "improved clinical symptoms" within the 1st week of taking it. Some good news is that China's Shanghai Junshi Biosciences recently completed a study of their VV116 oral COVID medication and it was found to alleviate symptoms faster and patients tested negative sooner than with Paxlovid. They are trying to seek regulatory approval for it for wide distribution in China. It has already been approved for use in Uzbekistan, so it's already out, just not well known. This would be as inexpensive as Azvudine and as widely available if it is approved. Here's the link...

link:
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Quotes:
In an announcement, the company said that 40% of people with COVID-19 who were given Azvudine for a week in a phase III clinical trial showed “improved clinical symptoms”, compared with 11% of those given a placebo.
China had approved only one oral antiviral to treat the disease, Paxlovid, developed by Pfizer in New York City. It is highly effective — it reduces the risk of hospitalization and death by nearly 89%
Shanghai Junshi Biosciences slightly tweaked the remdesivir formula and was granted a patent to manufacture it as a pill. It is already being used in Uzbekistan.
A phase III trial of VV116 in China compared its effectiveness and safety with that of Paxlovid. The company says that people with COVID-19 who received VV116 had their symptoms alleviated faster and tested negative sooner than those given Paxlovid, but detailed data from the trial have not yet been released.
 

getready

Senior Member
What is wrong with WHO nowadays making political-like statements like China is not sharing enough Covid data?

As it has turned out, from a 4th Jan 2023 WHO report, the Covid variants submitted by China's NHC to WHO are the same as those detected from Chinese travelers worldwide.

Tedros and WHO has been hijacked and politicized from pretty much early period of covid. Although probably not as much as American cdc and fauci. Nevertheless....
 

KYli

Brigadier
I read some studies concerning the efficacy of Azvudine and Paxlovid. Paxlovid was said to reduce hospitalization and death by 89%. There was no comparable study for Azvudine but it is believed to be much lower because around 40% of the study group was found to have "improved clinical symptoms" within the 1st week of taking it. Some good news is that China's Shanghai Junshi Biosciences recently completed a study of their VV116 oral COVID medication and it was found to alleviate symptoms faster and patients tested negative sooner than with Paxlovid. They are trying to seek regulatory approval for it for wide distribution in China. It has already been approved for use in Uzbekistan, so it's already out, just not well known. This would be as inexpensive as Azvudine and as widely available if it is approved. Here's the link...
Both Azvudine and Paxlovid only help for some patients but these pills don't drastically reduce deaths or hospitalizations. Paxlovid study was under optimal circumstance that excludes people with vaccination and has to be taken 5 days after infection. For the most part, young people taking Paxlovid don't offer better outcome, old people who have up to date vaccination don't really need Paxlovid. It is only old people with many long term diseases and not up date vaccination that require Paxlovid to make a difference. Azvudine study was not in that kind of optimal circumstance so compare with two pills are not possible. But both pills do lower the symptoms and helpful for some patients.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Both Azvudine and Paxlovid only help for some patients but these pills don't drastically reduce deaths or hospitalizations. Paxlovid study was under optimal circumstance that excludes people with vaccination and has to be taken 5 days after infection. For the most part, young people taking Paxlovid don't offer better outcome, old people who have up to date vaccination don't really need Paxlovid. It is only old people with many long term diseases and not up date vaccination that require Paxlovid to make a difference. Azvudine study was not in that kind of optimal circumstance so compare with two pills are not possible. But both pills do lower the symptoms and helpful for some patients.
If that is how the study was actually conducted, it's a bozo study.

I mean seriously. You live in a country where there is a fucking vaccine mandate, meaning it is illegal for people not to be vaccinated. Yet you're only going to test a new medicine on the unvaccinated?

I'm liable to believe severe selection bias was included here.
 

KYli

Brigadier
If that is how the study was actually conducted, it's a bozo study.

I mean seriously. You live in a country where there is a fucking vaccine mandate, meaning it is illegal for people not to be vaccinated. Yet you're only going to test a new medicine on the unvaccinated?

I'm liable to believe severe selection bias was included here.
It has always been a problem for many Western pharmaceutical nowadays. These companies want to have a better number such as 89% reduction in hospitals and deaths for taking Paxlovid pills so it can make more sales and charge more. Clinical trials have been designed in a way to get the optimal result not scientific result for the patients.

It is not to say Paxlovid is not useful for some patients. We simply just can't fully trust them and their statistics. Israel study said that high-risk 65 year old or above taking Paxlovid within 5 days of any symptoms could reduce hospitalizations and deaths by 75% but no difference for people younger than 65 year old.
 

Jianguo

Junior Member
Registered Member
It has always been a problem for many Western pharmaceutical nowadays. These companies want to have a better number such as 89% reduction in hospitals and deaths for taking Paxlovid pills so it can make more sales and charge more. Clinical trials have been designed in a way to get the optimal result not scientific result for the patients.

It is not to say Paxlovid is not useful for some patients. We simply just can't fully trust them and their statistics. Israel study said that high-risk 65 year old or above taking Paxlovid within 5 days of any symptoms could reduce hospitalizations and deaths by 75% but no difference for people younger than 65 year old.
That's true in general of many Western pharmaceutical companies. However, in the case of China's pharma, there isn't such an onerous record of selection bias. There's a lot of evidence that Pfizer played around with numbers to get to those high 90+ percent vaccine efficacy figures. The debate over how "useless" China's vaccines are stems largely from their comparatively low efficacy after 2 shots. However, what isn't mentioned nearly as often is the T-Cell response China's vaccines elicit after COVID infection, which is far superior to MRNA vaccines. If this evidence holds true, then it's likely that after all is said and done, the death rates in China will be significantly lower than those places that only took mRNA vaccines.
 
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