Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
Chish said:
Dangerous definitely yes, but not necessary useless because all information we got so far are from mass media, third party speculation. Waiting to hear her side of the event. She is a smart person, wouldn't do anything useless.
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vincent said:
Fake news:

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微博认证为“香港文汇报北京新闻中心执行总编辑”的“凯雷”3月4日凌晨也发微博称：“流传的这张照片是陈薇出征武汉前，和我03（年）打的是一样的针，旨在增强免疫力出征战场”“这些流传的图片上的文字是不对的”。

The injection is for a boost to immunity
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solarz said:
Which is why I immediately suspected this to be fake news. Looks like @vincent confirmed it!
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This would now make sense! No professional researcher would do such dumb thing.
 
N

nugroho

Junior Member
vesicles said:
Well, what this Chinese doctor has done is not only dangerous, but also useless.

First of all, no scientist can be sure of what they are doing while they are working on a project. Even when later on they are proven correct, no one can be sure while in the middle of a project. This is especially true in biology/medicine since we still know so little of biology. I personally know 3 Nobel Laureates and many world-leading experts in various medical/biological fields. I don't think any of them can tell you that they have been absolutely sure what they are doing while working on a project. As a matter of fact, many of them will tell you that their findings came as an accident, or as a complete surprise, or something that they initially absolutely disagreed or even refused to study because how ridiculous it sounded.

Further, it has been so common in medical research that experimental findings in one system cannot be translated to another system. Close to 99% of test drugs that work in cultured cells do not work in animals. Almost 1/3 of test drugs that work in mice/monkeys do not work in human. Many of them may even be helpful in mice but toxic in human. No scientist can be sure whether their drugs would work in human, even they get perfect results in animal testings. Actually, based on the statistics of past drug discovery efforts, your drug would most likely fail to perform in human. So what this Chinese doctor has done is very dangerous.

A good vaccine requires that its toxicity is at least 1 in 100,000. Even if she is completely cured by the vaccine, a single data point means absolutely nothing to show the effectiveness and toxicity of the vaccine. Even if she is killed by the vaccine, that still does not mean the vaccine is bad. A single data point is meaningless. So what she has done is completely useless.

Her action also sets a bad precedence. "So if you want to show your confidence of your drug/vaccine, you have to eat it yourself!" This is not recommended. As a matter of fact, most countries' health care systems, including China's, strictly prohibit self-testing of their own test drugs by the researchers.

Just imagine a nightmare scenario. She took the vaccine and reacted badly to the vaccine. Since she is the lead researcher, she is the only one who understands this vaccine. Now with her badly hurt by the vaccine, no one else knows what to do... Not a good idea...
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I agree it is dangerous, but it is not useless.
By injecting the vaccine to herself and team, the trial began labeled Phase 1 , omiting animal trial that took a long time.
If the result is good and she is allowed to inject 1000 others , then it will be Phase 3, shrinking a lot time of developing vaccine.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
vesicles said:
Well, what this Chinese doctor has done is not only dangerous, but also useless.

First of all, no scientist can be sure of what they are doing while they are working on a project. Even when later on they are proven correct, no one can be sure while in the middle of a project. This is especially true in biology/medicine since we still know so little of biology. I personally know 3 Nobel Laureates and many world-leading experts in various medical/biological fields. I don't think any of them can tell you that they have been absolutely sure what they are doing while working on a project. As a matter of fact, many of them will tell you that their findings came as an accident, or as a complete surprise, or something that they initially absolutely disagreed or even refused to study because how ridiculous it sounded.

Further, it has been so common in medical research that experimental findings in one system cannot be translated to another system. Close to 99% of test drugs that work in cultured cells do not work in animals. Almost 1/3 of test drugs that work in mice/monkeys do not work in human. Many of them may even be helpful in mice but toxic in human. No scientist can be sure whether their drugs would work in human, even they get perfect results in animal testings. Actually, based on the statistics of past drug discovery efforts, your drug would most likely fail to perform in human. So what this Chinese doctor has done is very dangerous.

A good vaccine requires that its toxicity is at least 1 in 100,000. Even if she is completely cured by the vaccine, a single data point means absolutely nothing to show the effectiveness and toxicity of the vaccine. Even if she is killed by the vaccine, that still does not mean the vaccine is bad. A single data point is meaningless. So what she has done is completely useless.

Her action also sets a bad precedence. "So if you want to show your confidence of your drug/vaccine, you have to eat it yourself!" This is not recommended. As a matter of fact, most countries' health care systems, including China's, strictly prohibit self-testing of their own test drugs by the researchers.

Just imagine a nightmare scenario. She took the vaccine and reacted badly to the vaccine. Since she is the lead researcher, she is the only one who understands this vaccine. Now with her badly hurt by the vaccine, no one else knows what to do... Not a good idea...
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Finally somebody on this thread actually speaks the truth, thank you Vesicles, and as you have pointed out, the consequences of the vaccine injuring or taking the life of the Dr. or members of her team would be momentous, that whole body of knowledge could vanish or at least be compromised..

While it is a nice emotional gesture, she placed herself, her team, and the nations well being at risk....

and US states declaring an emergency is not panic, but a funding vehicle to insure that money and medical protocols are in place...

I would encourage posters to leave out the politics, nation shaming, and ridiculing others faith, all are against the rules...

anyway, as Vesicles has pointed out, any researcher who did such a thing in his lab would be fired and likely censured by the medical community at large.... and while there is no doubt in my mind that the Dr. had ONLY The BEST intentions, it might encourage others to take unnecessary risks.
 
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A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
vesicles said:
Further, it has been so common in medical research that experimental findings in one system cannot be translated to another system. Close to 99% of test drugs that work in cultured cells do not work in animals. Almost 1/3 of test drugs that work in mice/monkeys do not work in human. Many of them may even be helpful in mice but toxic in human. No scientist can be sure whether their drugs would work in human, even they get perfect results in animal testings. Actually, based on the statistics of past drug discovery efforts, your drug would most likely fail to perform in human. So what this Chinese doctor has done is very dangerous.
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Given the logic above, wouldn't some drugs work in humans but not in animals?
So how useful is a lot of animal testing?
 
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