COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Self-sufficient MC21-310 vs original MC21-300 with Western components:
...
Max. seats (1 class): 211 vs 211 (same)
MTOW: 85,000 kg vs 79,250 kg (5.75t increase)
MLW: 73,500 kg vs 69,100 kg (4.4t increase)
Max. commercial load: 21,300 kg vs 22,600 kg (1.3t decrease)
2-class range: 5100 km vs 6,000 km (900km decrease)
usage of composite material: 30% vs 40-45% (10-15% decrease)

Though I can't find information of OEW of MC21-300/310, but the increase of MLW and the decrease of max commercial load explains everything: 4.4t+1.3t=5.7t=the increase of MTOW=the increment of OEW

If OEW wasn't increased, why would Yakovlev need to increase MLW meanwhile decrease max commercial load and range?
And that does Maximum Landing Weight have to do with Operating Empty Weight? For all we know they added stronger landing gear to the aircraft and got higher maximum landing weight. If anything the decrease in max commercial load is the only indicator of possible increase in OEW i.e. a possible 1.3t increase in OEW. Not 6t. But even that is specious since, for example, having an engine which is less fuel efficient would mean you need more weight of fuel to do the same kinds of missions. This fuel weight would then cut into the commercial load. The less fuel efficient engine would cut down range.

Having a Russian composite material manufacturer doesn't mean its products are on par with the original western suppliers. I'm also wondering in the remaining 30% composite material, how many of them are made in Russia and how many are supplied by Chinese carbon fiber manufacturers.....
The Russians tried buying Chinese composite material. Unfortunately for them it wasn't strong enough. So they contacted the division of Rosatom which made carbon fiber for high-speed uranium centrifuges. They designed the product and a factory was made to mass produce it.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys ... can we please stick to the topic - which is the C929 - and leave out all Russian projects?
In fact they are irrelevant and could better be discussed in the Russian thread!
 

ReneDad

New Member
Guys ... can we please stick to the topic - which is the C929 - and leave out all Russian projects?
In fact they are irrelevant and could better be discussed in the Russian thread!

Honestly, your demand is almost a mission impossible. If you ran a SinoTofuForum, there would also be a discuss on whether or not China could make high quality tofu without Russian soybean....;)

On a serious note, since unlike Russian current self-sufficiency policy, the project C929 is open to use foreign components if they are better than their Chinese counterparts and Russians also has expressed their desire to be a component supplier of the project, discussions on Russian ability of making world-class products to meet C929's requirements will always exist under this topic. To support the claims that Russian manufactures are qualified, pro-side needs to prove that Russia has already successfully used claimed technologies on its own projects like MC-21, and the con-side needs to prove that Russia hasn't such technologies, then these discussions divert to Russian projects instead of Chinese.

I think instead of banning such seemingly off-topic discussions which actually are not entirely irrelevant, it would be better to end these discussions when both sides could not present evidence to support their claims or either side refused to accept the evidence which the other side provided. For example: I speculated that Russia might have used made-in-China carbon fiber to replace made-in-Japan one and gelgoog claimed that Russian had made better carbon fiber. Since both sides can't provide solid evidence except some rumors from social media, the discussion should end here.

Another example is that I think I have provided enough evidence to prove MC21-310's OEW has been increased but gelgoog obviously refuses to accept it. I think the discussion also should be ended.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Agreed, but we do not constantly need to discuss other Russian projects, their specifications and so on.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
For example: I speculated that Russia might have used made-in-China carbon fiber to replace made-in-Japan one and gelgoog claimed that Russian had made better carbon fiber. Since both sides can't provide solid evidence except some rumors from social media, the discussion should end here.
I already posted links to the articles at ruaviation.com which explain this before. Russian Aviation is a credible aviation industry news site. Need I do it every single time someone brings up this argument with regards to Russian vs Chinese composites?

If Russia could have used Chinese carbon fiber and composites they would have done so. And like I said, Russia produces worse carbon fibers than Japanese ones in terms of strength to weight ratio, but their adhesive is better than the US supplied adhesive. The resulting composite made by combining the fiber and adhesive the Russians got with their own materials was not worse than what they were previously importing from Europe made with Japanese fiber and US adhesive. That is the official news.
 

by78

General
COMAC shows off C929 models at the Farnborough Airshow.

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53872734852_42fd923808_k.jpg
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
OMG C929 prototype is gonna fly! It will probably take quite a while for the real thing to come out, but I am excited. With C929 China's ambition to master the industry would complete. After that all thats left would be clawing market share from incumbents.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
OMG C929 prototype is gonna fly! It will probably take quite a while for the real thing to come out, but I am excited. With C929 China's ambition to master the industry would complete. After that all thats left would be clawing market share from incumbents.
Really? when ?
 
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