COMAC C919

What annoys me the most is that these delays came out of nowhere and there is absolutely no transparency.
It's like a giant fishing project that just suddenly got delayed again, then again, then again.
The project schedule just doesn't mean anything to them. Zero. None. Nil.
Then why bother telling people to deliver in 2021. Nobody is going to believe any shit coming out of COMAC.

longmarch said:

What annoys me the most is that these delays came out of nowhere and there is absolutely no transparency.
It's like a giant fishing project that just suddenly got delayed again, then again, then again.
The project schedule just doesn't mean anything to them. Zero. None. Nil.
Then why bother telling people to deliver in 2021. Nobody is going to believe any shit coming out of COMAC.

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That's par course for all the aerospace (aircraft and space both) majors.

It's important to have completed products, even if they are inferior in quality. Every yuan China spends on Boeing or Airbus planes leaves the country and goes towards the defense and R&D industries of countries that are now actively hostile to it. Even if a Chinese substitute aircraft using domestic core components were only to deliver half the value of the Boeing plane, it would still be worth it because (nearly) the full cost would remain in-country and contribute to the domestic industry. It makes sense for Beijing to subsidize China's airlines to buy domestic planes, even if they have lower fuel economy, range, speed, etc. The only area where you can't really compromise on is safety. But the other parameters, you can and should.

gadgetcool5 said:

It's important to have completed products, even if they are inferior in quality. Every yuan China spends on Boeing or Airbus planes leaves the country and goes towards the defense and R&D industries of countries that are now actively hostile to it. Even if a Chinese substitute aircraft using domestic core components were only to deliver half the value of the Boeing plane, it would still be worth it because (nearly) the full cost would remain in-country and contribute to the domestic industry. It makes sense for Beijing to subsidize China's airlines to buy domestic planes, even if they have lower fuel economy, range, speed, etc. The only area where you can't really compromise on is safety. But the other parameters, you can and should.

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Not necessarily. China has the capability to compete with Boeing and Airbus in home market but I'm very sure that China won't find export success in the international market - even in BRI countries with much love for China.

Boeing and Airbus paid in blood and money to be here. High profile accidents and lessons learned. China lacks this accumulated experience. When Airbus and Boeing invests in China, much more important than the technology, China is learning to manufacture systems that meet certain standards ( standards that have been created as a result of 70 years of aviation history).

So, C919/C929 on one side and the supply chain for Boeing/Airbus on the other side. I won't call C919 program a failure as so much is being built to accommodate not just C919 but a larger civil aircraft industry. It'll take time. If you ever feel hopeless, just go to YouTube and look up videos of China back in 1990s. That'll cheer you up.

(Though I must say, China is very conservative in pushing the envelope- whether it be tech or money. I understand that a middle income country can't be too risk taking but still, aspirations are huge.)

Could this be one of reasons causing the delay ？

According to this video，the ability to examine and certify an commercial plane is even harder than designing one, this is an area China is particularly weak compare to the West. C-919 has been stuck in testing phase for several years already，this news from 2021/12/03 says that there is a total of 3273 test points and 276 flight test，1694 test points and 34 flight test have been completed as of now. So there is still a lot of testing work remains, the date that C-919 can finally be delivered to airline is still unclear at this moment.

tonyget said:

Could this be one of reasons causing the delay ？

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Not "Could be" but "Definitely". Things would've been even more serious if China completed the tests for C919 and made into serial production.

Two options remain -

1. Cooperate with Russia to develop C929 and also C919. Russia has MC-21 in late development.
2. Develop China's own aviation industry ( it'd take 10 years atleast).

The Russian program MC-21 has also been affected by sanctions or threat thereof. Though the PD-14 is developed to secure the engine supply, I don't know how Russia plans to substitute Honeywell, Rockwell Collins, United technologies systems. As per wiki the French and Israelis supply Avionics too (Thales and Elbit) . Maybe Russian members can better answer that.

China and Russia cooperating can help both countries a lot.

Xsizor said:

Not "Could be" but "Definitely". Things would've been even more serious if China completed the tests for C919 and made into serial production.

Two options remain -

1. Cooperate with Russia to develop C929 and also C919. Russia has MC-21 in late development.
2. Develop China's own aviation industry ( it'd take 10 years atleast).

The Russian program MC-21 has also been affected by sanctions or threat thereof. Though the PD-14 is developed to secure the engine supply, I don't know how Russia plans to substitute Honeywell, Rockwell Collins, United technologies systems. As per wiki the French and Israelis supply Avionics too (Thales and Elbit) . Maybe Russian members can better answer that.

China and Russia cooperating can help both countries a lot.

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Looks like it might be years of delay for C919 if Biden hold fast onto Trump's China policies. COMAC will have to go for plan B like Huawei did.

The ones that gain from this will be Airbus and China's High Speed Rail.

The Russian government has provided (some) funding to replace all the other imported systems on the MC-21 and Superjet.
The program is supposed to be finished in a year or two.

gelgoog said:

The Russian government has provided (some) funding to replace all the other imported systems on the MC-21 and Superjet.
The program is supposed to be finished in a year or two.

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Since it was only under Trump that civilian aircraft industry was subjected to sanctions ( just two years ago), its incredible for Russia to have substituted all the systems with indigenous ones.

Not that I don't believe it. I do question the quality of the reworked product.Let's hope Russia figures this out because C929 needs the success.