COMAC C919

latenlazy

Brigadier
I doubt it. Irkut has yet to decide on a provider for Avionics ( as of 2020). How they plan to replace Collins and Honeywell is unclear. EU systems ( French, German) are another and the Ukraine situation isn't looking good.
It’s going to be “unclear” if you assume no news is the same as nothing happening. Transitioning your supply takes time. That’s not the same thing as lacking sufficient capability to do it well.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
What makes passenger jets avionics so much more challenging than military transport?
Pilot comfort and passenger comfort is one thing. The FMS does planning for the flight through congested airspace and for efficient fuel use. All of this and more means computing power and good reliability.

@latenlazy I specifically mentioned the date of the article I read to make clear that I'm not assuming much. Lacking capability is what made Russia in this predicament. But only time will tell if Russia builds up the capability in just time. Because China's programs are tied to Russian successes.
 
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
As i said, the quality is upto debate. You and me and most out there know that the Russian solutions won't be as good ( under the lenses of global airlines).

Btw, why did MC-21 program ever source systems from US/French/Israeli providers in the first place ? Same with the PW engines.
PD-14 programme and related avionics systems are decades old. it is based on PS-12 engine programe.
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what Russia didnot know at the time Russia will get rich so fast due to commodity prices and private investments. so the volume of investment and manpower were multiplied. the more money Russia gets. the higher the allocation of competent technical people to projects.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
PD-14 programme and related avionics systems are decades old. it is based on PS-12 engine programe.
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what Russia didnot know at the time Russia will get rich so fast due to commodity prices and private investments. so the volume of investment and manpower were multiplied. the more money Russia gets. the higher the allocation of competent technical people to projects.
Sure, for PD-14 ( I never made it a subject for discussion). But can you link some articles pointing at the Avionics development for MC-21? Nothing of worth shows up in my searches.

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pmc

Major
Registered Member
Pilot comfort and passenger comfort is one thing. The FMS does planning for the flight through congested airspace and for efficient fuel use. All of this and more means computing power and good reliability.

@latenlazy I specifically mentioned the date of the article I read to make clear that I'm not assuming much. Lacking capability is what made Russia in this predicament. But only time will tell if Russia builds up the capability in just time. Because China's programs are tied to Russian successes.
Russians are using 200 Sukhoi SSJ in harsh conditions of regional airports and they do international flights. it has half French engine but French does not invest much in its engines as it has no use of those engines. so entire responsibility of maintaining operational parts is on Russia. this system may not work for international airlnes.

This Plane is good enough for VIP flights of Thai Airforce.
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Russians are using 200 Sukhoi SSJ in harsh conditions of regional airports and they do international flights. it has half French engine but French does not invest much in its engines as it has no use of those engines. so entire responsibility of maintaining operational parts is on Russia. this system may not work for international airlnes.

This Plane is good enough for VIP flights of Thai Airforce.
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Sure, all good. But neither engines or SSJ was the original subject. It's Avionics. Russia is quite good regarding Turbofans, many know.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Sure, for PD-14 ( I never made it a subject for discussion). But can you link some articles pointing at the Avionics development for MC-21? Nothing of worth shows up in my searches.

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You are making assumptions that does not make any logical sense. if some one pouring billons into a programme in all aspects from composites to engines and you think they not think over avionics?. This C919 is not all composite by current standards.
Russian government is using Russian made airplanes with latest avionics. certain planes they not even allow inside pictures. and they fully capable of CAT III landings. Half baked solutions of buying parts from here and there no longer works. they will give some times for replacements.

That logic is increasingly being implemented in private business Either go all in 100% or dont waste skilled labor on partial assemblies.
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
The best Russian low bypass or high bypass turbofans are still a good decade or two behind the best Western variants.

China lagging behind in materials science and mass manufacturing high quality materials/components maybe the reason it has to team up with Russia on aeroengines.

The other area in aviation/aerospace where Russia still leads China is aerodynamics and control, probably. Avionics is often sourced from COTS sources and so are other components and parts such as APU, landing gear, seats, environmental control units and such.

It was alleged that one Chinese attack helicopter was originally designed by a Russian design bureau.
That attack helicopter is likely Z10.
I would say that Russia leads China in experience and existing base, Not comprehensive capability and that includes Aerodynamics, control etc.

Most do know that Russian Turbofans aren't 'excellent'. But PD-14 is quite good and promising. Coming to Avionics, Russia seems to have only started looking into it by 2020s ( as the article says). Creating Avionics for a civilian jet that'd see service life of decades out of COTS seem quite risky.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
You are making assumptions that does not make any logical sense. if some one pouring billons into a programme in all aspects from composites to engines and you think they not think over avionics?. This C919 is not all composite by current standards.
Russian government is using Russian made airplanes with latest avionics. certain planes they not even allow inside pictures. and they fully capable of CAT III landings. Half baked solutions of buying parts from here and there no longer works. they will give some times for replacements.

That logic is increasingly being implemented in private business Either go all in 100% or dont waste skilled labor on partial assemblies.
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I made assumptions based on the articles I cited. You may ask the Russian planners behind this program for why the MC-21 seem not entering series production sooner. What civilian aircrafts with latest avionics are you talking about ?
Taking time for replacements is alright. Never have i made that an issue either.
You seem to miss the subject of discussion often. You linked an article regarding Automotive combustion engine while we are talking about Civilian aircrafts. Very odd replies from you. And there was no attempt from me to compare C919 and MC21. Strange.
 
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