737 has been around for 60 years. developing a narrow body jetliner like that is certainly not as cutting edge as developing the J20.
The lesson from the chronical delays in ARJ and C919 is: don't trust comprador.
COMAC C919
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
737 has been around for 60 years. developing a narrow body jetliner like that is certainly not as cutting edge as developing the J20.
The lesson from the chronical delays in ARJ and C919 is: don't trust comprador.
why there are only 60 ARJ21 in service?. with such low rate of production. it will even become uneconomical for engine manufacture and other subsystems suppliers to to supply to such project. there is global shortage of skilled labor.
if there is no production ramp of C919 soon. the suppliers will divert there labor from such projects.
French already intensively exporting Rafale jet incase the downturn in Air travel continues long term
if there is no production ramp of C919 soon. the suppliers will divert there labor from such projects.
French already intensively exporting Rafale jet incase the downturn in Air travel continues long term
From the report one of the area that they haven't done is "naturel icing test", see the quotation below. You just can't dictate the natural environment. Certification test is not test in a lab that you can simulate artificially. There can be lots of improvement of the process, but you simply can not speed it up if the weather does not cooperate. I remember one of CRJ21's icing or landing test had to be done in a place (abroad?) that the condition is more common to happen.
杨桢梅表示，大飞机研制是一项极其复杂的工程，以试飞为例，共规划了表明符合性飞行试验工作3273个试验点，审定试飞科目276项，经过努力，目前已完成1694个试验点和34项审定试飞科目，还有自然结冰等大量试飞工作需要完成，民航局专业审查团队正在全力配合中国商飞公司研制工作开展适航审查。
Why don't you take the technology, industrial and agriculture achievements of Mao's early time as example, but only the failed ones? Because they are not convenient for you?
The craziness lasted only TWO years from 1958 to 1960, but China's steel production went from 158,000 tonnes in 1949 to 26,000,000 tonnes yearly in mid 1970s all under Mao's time. Call that reality a hype?
To do something great always carry great risks. Only the ones who never try to do something big will never fail and have the luxury to laugh at other's setbacks. In your mind, everything China does is a hype, not only the delayed C919, but the world number one HSR (as an example of many) and GDP as well. And I loves these "hypes" because they lead China somewhere better than being smart armchair generals.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
First is position. ARJ is in the regional narrow that means fighting Embraer, Airbus, Bombardier, UAC, Fairchild Dornier, Antonov and residual fleets of vintage Jets.
Next is how has it passed international certification?
Finally is role. Comac clearly sees the limitations of only being an airliner as such in the last round of Airshows they debuted a Buisness jet version the CBJ1. Clearly they feel that that market may be able to bump up its sales. This isn’t a new strategy though Just about all the other Regional jets are offered like that, but I am pretty sure the PLAAF would buy them. I mean the CCP and PLA officials fly to summits or VVIP Confabs they have Airbus, Bombardier and Boeing branding under their arses. That has to chafe the Nationalist aspect of the party. Which is why I expect that all three of the Comac offerings will be sinofied soon after introduction.
First of all, you need to remember that there is no way US and Europe is going to easily certify Chinese and Russian aircraft. That is because of political and economical reasons. Most of countries just copy/paste/delegate their authority to US and EU. The only viable market for ARJ21 is China. P.S. C919's certification is a deal between China and US/EU with compromises in areas unrelated to aviation, it is again a political thing.
What other aircraft in the ARJ21 class is flying inside China? What is ARJ21's share? The size of that market was small and is shrinking due to the HSR network. Besides, China is willing to pay for the learning cost of making airliner from ARJ21, to C919 and then C929, grasping the know-how and NOT being blackmailed by US (or EU to a much lower extent) is equally important to profitability if not more. At last, if situation demands, China will shut out some of the unfriendly competitors to make C919/C929 profitable, my money pay my family.
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It is irrelevant what external competition. ARJ factory built. they need to produce more and Chinese domestic airlines need to use them if it is certified plane inside China. from Shanghai to Urumqi The flight distance is about 3300km. China does not need more longer range plane if it is using domestically. either the plane cannot be produce more due to supply chain constraints or plane cannot keep uptimes with Airbus A320/Boeing 737.
Aviation is very manpower intensive field. you cannot make a factory with limited production. Labor crises will come to China sooner than in West. French over invest in Aviation (Dassualt/Airbus/Turbomeca/Safron/Thales/ATR) and now facing sky high electricity prices due to lack of investment. French choose Aviation over Nuclear power.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Embraer 190 and CRJ are both present but seems like slated for orders of ARJ
You spoke my mind. Although I wouldn't allege these are "compradors", I would say that they were drunk in that good Globalism derived -" we all a family" - tonic. A similar predicament to that of MA700 ( albeit the later being less serious a case, from the looks of it).
C919 or some model in that segment will come out of China, the question is only 'when'. I don't think they'd rush the tests. More importantly, we don't know how current and future US restrictions would hit the program. I for one LOVE it. Bitter lessons for all stakeholders to remember for a long time.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
That’s a protectionist standpoint. The fact is competition is still in place unlike Nuclear power which has a much higher risk of Duel role. Next production is based on demand and market. Cranking out airliners like sausages might sound cool but it’s a sure fire way to bankrupt the company and end up with poor quality. The last thing Comac as an emerging civil aircraft maker needs. Farther Aviation is a highly specialized highly quality controlled complex industry as such it’s not about raw numbers the rate of production this far is about the norm.
Additionally the Primary choice of size for airliners is the 919 not the ARJ. As I pointed out a lot of the regional liners also fly as buisness jets. The buisness jet version often sell to government, Corporations and mega rich in equal if not better demand. I mean Gulfstream and Dassault Falcon were never airliners yet are still produced in equal numbers. Heck right now the Buisness jet sector is in high demand with long delivery dates.