Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Huitong is saying:

Recent news (October 2009) suggested that JL-9 passed the technology certification and is ready to enter series production for both PLAAF and PLAN.

About time! For something that was supposed to be 'fast and cheap to develop' it took about 8 years! At least now they can finally replace those JJ-5, JJ-6 and JJ-7 that have been in the air for nearly forever!
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

L-15 Spec's-Provided At Dubai Airshow

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Thanks A.Man, it seems to me that Hongdu and AVIC are betting on creating some sort of synergy between the L-15 and the JF-17 to increase sales for both aircraft. I'm especially interested though to learn more about the miltarised LIFT L-15 variant though, I hope we get some more info on it.

According to this:

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There were brochures for 'the FTC-2000 supersonic advanced trainer, CZ-11MB1 light multi-purpose helicopter (Z-11 variant), the K-8 Karakorum jet trainer, the FC-1/JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter. Aircraft weapons systems included the winged 500-kg LS-6 standoff strike weapon and the SD-10A medium-range air-to-air missile.' I hope we get to see those brochures eventually!
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Aviation Week said:
Avic Open To Local Manufacturing Of L-15s

Nov 19, 2009

By Bradley Perrett


Avic Defense, adopting an increasingly Western approach to military aircraft sales, says it is willing to allow foreign production of its latest export product, the L-15 Falcon supersonic trainer.

The aircraft is likely to retain the key advantage of an aircraft from a developing country, however, since the manufacturer is also suggesting it will be cheaply priced.

The L-15 is joining a crowded market as one of four trainers with the high flight performance needed for direct pilot transition to the most advanced fighters. Other players in the field are the Korea Aerospace T-50, Yakovlev Yak-130 and Alenia M-346.

The M-346 is a derivative of the Yak-130, while the L-15 resembles the Russian aircraft and was developed with help from Yakovlev.

Avic Defense’s trainer business, Hongdu Aviation of Nanchang, has already had considerable success in allowing a customer to set up a separate production line. Its JL-8 (or K-8) subsonic jet trainer has been assembled in Egypt as part of an order for 120.

But the willingness of Avic Defense to allow foreign assembly of the L-15 is more surprising, since the company has not yet put the Falcon into large-scale production at home. Moreover, manufacturers in up-and-coming aircraft industries, far more than most Western competitors, are usually highly protective of their home production lines.

“Because the L-15 has been developed and made in China, we are very competitive in price,” says Avic Defense President Wang Yawei, also asserting that the aircraft’s performance is at least comparable with that of its competitors.

Five L-15s have been built so far, Wang told Aviation Week during an interview in the company’s offices in central Beijing. One of the five is slated to be at the Dubai Airshow to perform the type’s first foreign flight demonstration. Despite skepticism in some aerospace companies about the value of air-show flight displays, Avic Defense feels they can bring great success after its experience with the Egyptian order.

Export sales may be particularly crucial for the L-15, since it is not assured of large-scale domestic sales. The Chinese air force could instead buy the JL-9, a massively modified derivative of the MiG-21, as its supersonic trainer.

The JL-9, also called the FTC-2000, is a product of the Guizhou Aircraft subsidiary of Avic General Aircraft.

Aerodynamically, the L-15 features prominent leading-edge extensions that help it to emulate the extreme maneuverability of the latest fighters. The flight control system is digitally commanded.

As to the similarity to the Yak-130, “the development of the L-15 was primarily based on the results of domestic technology research,” says Wang.

“[But] in seeking to catch up with the mainstream development of such advanced trainers, we proceeded with international cooperation in certain areas, benefiting from our long-term relationships. We cooperated with international partners on aerodynamic design and testing.”

In the development of the latest-generation trainers, such cooperation has inevitably resulted in an interchange of ideas and the partners learning from each other, says Wang. “So the similar characteristics of these similar products simply reflect technological cooperation and the requirements of the market.”

Avic Defense specializes in fighters, trainers, drones and missiles, although it also has considerable nonmilitary and even nonaeronautic activities. Its key factories are the combat aircraft plants at Chengdu and Shenyang, Hongdu Aircraft, the missile facilities at Luoyang and three maintenance businesses.

The J-10 is the latest fighter from Chengdu to enter service, although a successor is close to flight testing (see p. 26).

Despite reports of an imminent sale to Pakistan, Wang plays down the immediate potential of the J-10 (or Jian-10) as an export product, because Avic Defense is too busy filling domestic orders.

“The J-10 is one of the major fighter aircraft for the Chinese air force,” he stresses. “The main responsibility of our facilities is to operate at full load to provide this advanced military aviation equipment to the Chinese air force. Whether the J-10 will be offered in the international market will be decided in the future.”

China has agreed to sell 36 J-10s to Pakistan, the Financial Times and Pakistan’s Daily Times quote unnamed Pakistani officials as saying. Wang told Aviation Week he has not heard of such reports.

For the moment, the company is promoting export sales of its FC-1 Xiaolong (or JF-17 Thunder), which it says is of the same technology generation as the J-10. The FC-1 has been jointly developed with Pakistan.

Separately, details of Shenyang’s F-8T, the latest version of another Avic Defense product, have been revealed. The fighter, whose origins date back to the 1960s, now offers 15,400 lb. thrust, up 4% from the previously reported rating, and a multifunction X band pulse-Doppler radar with a detection range of 75 km. (40 nm.) for 3-sq.-meter targets.

A brochure shows the aircraft with Avic Defense’s advanced PL-12 air-to-air missile. Weight is 10.4 metric tons empty, 15.2 tons at normal takeoff and 20 tons maximum.

A few days old but posting it just in case somebody missed it
 
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Air forces interested in Chinese L-15 planes
November 13 at 10:18 | Interfax-Ukraine The Air Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are interested in the acquisition of Chinese training L-15 planes, the press service of the Finance Ministry said.

In particular, the Command of the Air Forces, general-colonel Ivan Rusnak, this issue was discussed during the visit of the Ukrainian delegation to China. At the same time, Rusnak said that the final decision on the acquisition of planes will depend on how soon this plane will be army-accepted in China.

One week old news but Ukraine is also considering perhaps a joint production of L-15? This could be a mutually beneficial arrangement.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

One week old news but Ukraine is also considering perhaps a joint production of L-15? This could be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

It makes sense, the Ukrainians build the engines so its essentially a 'make work' project, they upgrade the capabilities of their air force, provides assurance to other countries considering buying the L-15 of the aircraft's reliability, it weens Ukraine off Russian based equipment for defense while still remaining neutral from the US and they help rebuilt the Ukrainian aviation industry.

Additionally, by 2012, Ukraine intends to finally fill the gap created by retiring its MiG-23 fleet several years ago with a new aircraft, a militarised, armed L-15 has been discussed for a while and would probably be a decent candidate by then.
 

tphuang

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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

It makes sense, the Ukrainians build the engines so its essentially a 'make work' project, they upgrade the capabilities of their air force, provides assurance to other countries considering buying the L-15 of the aircraft's reliability, it weens Ukraine off Russian based equipment for defense while still remaining neutral from the US and they help rebuilt the Ukrainian aviation industry.

Additionally, by 2012, Ukraine intends to finally fill the gap created by retiring its MiG-23 fleet several years ago with a new aircraft, a militarised, armed L-15 has been discussed for a while and would probably be a decent candidate by then.

and I think if Ukrainians are involved, they will be a greater stakeholder and could possibly make their own upgrades and help Hongdu with upgrades to L-15. As long as PLA intends to induct L-15, it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to also get it.
 

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

and I think if Ukrainians are involved, they will be a greater stakeholder and could possibly make their own upgrades and help Hongdu with upgrades to L-15. As long as PLA intends to induct L-15, it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to also get it.

Indeed, the Ukrainians have been a key player in the development (and delays ;) ) of the L-15, them being on board as a full partner, much like the development of the FC-1, would certainly lower costs of future projects and provide AVIC with many more projects for the two aviation industries to work together.

As for the L-15's induction, it seems pretty inevitable that both the JJ-9 and L-15 will see PLAAF service eventually but a partner would undoubtedly alleviate some apprehension from potential buyers about the sustainability and quality of the aircraft.
 

A.Man

Major
Re: JL-15 and other trainers

L-15's-Trainer plus Attack Oriented Fighter or Attacker.

L-15 is built for training "fighters" (pilots to fight) not for pilots!

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tphuang

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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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enezuela to take delivery on Chinese planes next year

(AFP) – 4 days ago

CARACAS — Venezuela will take delivery in 2010 of the first six of 18 K-8 Karakorum trainer or light attack planes it bought from China, the Air Force's top commander said Friday.

"A total of 18, K-8 18 aircraft will be delivered, in addition to radar equipment that will help ensure national security," General Jorge Arevalo told ABC news agency.

He said China would make three deliveries of the warplanes next year, the first of which will consist of six units.

The two-seater K-8 fighters will be test flown by Venezuelan pilots in China before they are taken apart and shipped to Venezuela, officials said.

A deal for the 18 jets was signed by Venezuela and China in late 2008. The aircraft is part of Venezuela's effort to upgrade its armed forces and gradually replace its mostly US-made equipment.

Arevalo stressed the Chinese planes and radars were intended to boost Venezuela's defensive capabilities, adding: "we don't attack anybody."

Venezuela and Colombia's military are on heightened alert after Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez recently complained of a US-Colombian military base agreement he claims threatens regional peace.

Russia, China and Belarus are Venezuela's main military suppliers.

In September, Caracas said it had obtained a 2.2-billion-dollar credit from Russia to purchase nearly 100 T72 tanks and a series of anti-aircraft rocket systems from its strategic ally.
it was supposed to be delivered this year I think, but I guess now it's postponed, but other than that, not much new on this deal.
 
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